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Travis Prinzi




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Hogwarts, Hogwarts,
Hoggy Warty Hogwarts,
Teach us something please,
Whether we be old and bald,
Or young with scabby knees,
Our heads could do with filling,
With some interesting stuff,
For now they're bare
And full of air,
Dead flies and bits of fluff.
So teach us stuff worth knowing,
Bring back what we forgot,
Just do your best
We'll do the rest,
And learn until our brains all rot!



1: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2: Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3: There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4: Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5: Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6: His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8: The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9: The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10: More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11: Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12: Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13: Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14: Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Saturday, August 05, 2006

Of Dementors, Dark Lords and Depression (Lumos 2006 Material)

Of Dementors, Dark Lords and Depression: A Study of Mental Illness in Harry Potter
by Kimberly DeCina and JoSelle Vanderhooft

Well, I have done with all my chores of moving for the present and am back to writing. Last night while driving an absolutely packed minivan from clearing out my WV room and bringing the stuff up here for staging the move to NYC I listened to 2 more talks from Lumos that I wasn't able to make it to at the conference (Sumara, if you're reading this, don't worry - after I crank out these 2 posts I am hopping over to the Pirates comments thread ... it's good stuff I'll be adding there. And Travis, don't worry getting to Dr. John's PoMo realism talk is definitely still big on my list ... but this one should interest you as well because these two focused, among other things, on Voldemort as Anti-Social Personality Disorder).

Anyway, DeCina and Vanderhooft went through 3 main "mental illness" categories in the series. I'll discuss Voldy as the personality disorder a little later in this post, along with the main "meaning" hinge point I think is involved. First though, they went through narcissism and two forms of depression. First, in regards to narcissism they noted that Gilderoy Lockheart has all 9 categorical symptoms (I think they said you only need 5 or 7 to be technically diagnosed) - accompanied by a plethora of textual evidence from our well known heel in CS. As far as depression, they noted the difference between "clinical" or severe depression episode -- which are usually distinctly isolated occurrences, and they noted the publicized incidents of Rowling having in connection with the end of her first marriage and the death of her mother -- and Dysthymic Depression ("This refers to a low to moderate level of depression that persists for at least two years, and often longer" - I pulled that from this site and from what I remember from listening to the talk last night, DeCina and Vanderhooft used this word for word ... I suspect it is from the standard "manual of diagnosis" they cited in the talk.)

As an instance of the severe episode they noted Harry's response to the Dementors in POA. They compared the use of chocolate to the use of anti-depressant medication, noting the need for avoiding the "just increase the dosage" syndrome and for therapy alongside medication, a role (the therapist) which they saw Lupin as fulfilling. Oddly, although they noted Lupin's experience as a werewolf as putting him in a good stance to be the therapist for Harry, they made a point of saying that they do not see Lupin's magical malady as a mental illness instance, and this is a place I disagree with them, especially when we see "what Lupin believes about himself" in HBP in regards to his capability to have a stable relationship with Tonks, but the point here is one that really comes out more in the Voldy material below, and which, while I do disagree with these presenters here, I don't see it as as major of an instance as the one with Voldy, but part of it comes from what I would say is an overly "realist" reading. They do seem very knowledgeable and respectable in their field and were saying Lupin does not fit the standardly listed categories. But I think the magical malady does represent a disorder, maybe a more "general" way of looking at psychic illness and a key point is how he responds to it ... he does not respond as does Greyback ... in other words he makes a choice. He is afflicted with a condition that was beyond his control and renders him beyond reason when it hits and he suffers some "debilitating" insecurities with regards to Tonks - although they have actually talked about it, which may put his insecurities in a different class than the diffidence that many suffer in real life -- and prejudice from Umbridge and others. I believe Rowling is making a point about how you choose to cope with these psychological matters.

Maybe it is that these ladies are saying Lupin is not "incapacitated" enough to qualify, but as they note about Snape as dysthymic depressive (which introduces that part of their talk) ... dysthymic depression does not really "rob" the person of free choice. They had a lot of good textual evidence of Snape's anti-social tendencies and his irascibility and lack of capability for healthy mirth. Although the ladies did not think of Lupin as having a real-world psychological disorder, I found the close juxtaposition in their talk of these 3 characters (Harry, Lupin, Snape) interesting because Snape has a relationship of antipathy towards both of the other two, which is one of the reasons I would class Lupin in the set of Rowlingian themes clustered around "psychological struggles."

Voldemort

Hopefully I can pull off what I want to say here concisely here. Like I said, DeCina and Vanderhooft classed Voldy as Anti-Social Personality disorder and they did a pretty good job of drawing out the symptoms. He had a few to spare when looking at the list of classifiable symptoms and how many you need to be officially diagnosed.

Where I disagreed with the presenters was when they touched on Rowling's comments on Voldy making choices that he is responsible for. They noted that personality disorders are a much deeper issue than depression (they are often life-long and begin in child-hood) and do, in the real world, render some incapable of controlling certain of their choices to a level of whether or not they can be held morally culpable. (BTW, this is precisely the issue in an article in the encyclopedia I was just helping edit, the entry on annulments ... the fact that a lot of research progress has been made into personality disorders in recent times and that the Roman Curia takes this into consideration in setting precedences for the world's annulment tribunals on how the growing phenomenon of such disorders affects people's ability even to make committed choices, etc. The article was written by a retired canon lawyer from New York named Monsignor George Graham, and was really thorough and well written.)

I think that, as literature, the works are primarily dwelling on spiritual themes, or at the very least that they are not limited to "realist" correspondence to "psychology" as such (or other realms of study and practice related to real-world anthropological concerns). The thing I want to emphasize here, though, is that the two are inter-related but should not be conflated. There are evil choices that people can make, i.e., sins. There is also the presence and effect of evil in all the aspects of the world. Physical malady is an example of this, and so are psychic/psychological maladies (as I heard one priest say once, "I am not responsible for my addiction ... but I am responsible for my recovery" - in other words, responsible for how I respond to it, how actively I seek out the help needed, etc).

In the end I think the primary role of literature as a symbolist endeavor is one of exposition of the truth that informs our thinking and choices, but because the psychological and spiritual inter-relate in the human person, literature also touches very poignantly on psychological and emotional issues. (I personally believe they inter-relate so much because the human spirit and the human psyche are the same thing as regards substance -- which is to say that I am "bipartite" -- but I am also very wary of defining the totality of the human person with terms such as "parts" into which a person can be "broken down" ... but as far as the "bipartite vs tripartite" debate I come closest to a "bipartite" ... but there is a ton of room there for debate on the matter).

A lot of this comes also to what the language shows us. "Psychology" comes from the Greek "psyche" for "soul." Alchemy is all about the "Golden Soul", but it is a spiritual discipline about spiritual transformation. Alchemy and psychology are like the two approaches from the two things (physical nature and spiritual nature) that are wed in the beautiful mystery of the human person and human soul. And I definitely think the spiritual level of alchemy (and therefore the culpability of sin) is a main focus in Rowling's work ... which is just simply to say that Voldemort is a literary character, and not a real world person with the disorder.

Well, not extremely concise, but I think I got the main point in I wanted to.

Side Note: As concerns psychology, I really liked that in Looking for God in Harry Potter, Granger went into the whole medieval thing of the "vegetative, sensate and intellectual" types of soul. I really liked that in CS Rowling seems to me to have a great image that shows the importance of the distinction and the qualitative difference of the human soul, while keeping in view the need to respect all living things. The image of the mandrakes was criticized by some of the "Harry Haters" as an acceptance of abortion (or so I heard) because they look like babies but it is all right to kill them. I think that in their "humanoid" features they represent the dignity of even the vegetative soul, but in the fact that it is all right to kill them and use them for the good of those human beings who have been petrified they represent the qualitative difference between human souls and the other two, lower types.

PS

Travis, I'm going to try to look at the data CD and see if their talk is on there (I accidentally placed my computer bag that has the CD in it in a difficult place to get to but I'll be re-arranging stuff in the next couple days and have it back out), and also trying to poke around Lumos' site and see if they are offering that data CD for sale to the public or if there is a way to get it, or try to figure out if I am allowed to put up the PDF file online as long as I am not selling it for money (Pauli might know more about this, the whole proprietary and copyright thing, since I think they consider submitting the paper and having it accepted as being "published" ... but if I am allowed to do it I would like to, especially if they are not publicly selling the CD, because I think a lot of you would really enjoy just reading the papers - sometimes in the talks people had to cut points for time, and it would be good to be able to read all the stuff they had) ... If they are selling it, I highly recommend buying it - a lot of good stuff, with their footnotes and bibliographic material and all that good stuff for research (when I pull it out I'll try to put up a list here of the talks that definitely made it onto the CD.)
posted by Merlin at 9:22 PM


Comments on "Of Dementors, Dark Lords and Depression (Lumos 2006 Material)"

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (August 05, 2006 11:48 PM) : 

I wanted to add here that when I say I disagree with these 2 presenters, I respected and enjoyed their talk (on CD, this talk I missed at the conference because I was all wrapped up in getting Granger's singature on Pauli's book and talking to him and then excitedly rushing out to the lobby to get it up on the site as soon as I could).

You can tell some nervousness in their voices in the talk (using "um" a bit and stuff like that) and from that presentations I have done I always admire people when they get up there and pull it off and keep it together.

And as far as disagreeing with them where I do, I must also say that I am grateful that on here nobody seriously busts my chops when I get a little excited and take this or that point too far in one direction or another. I thought their research was really good and really respectable, and also that they were bringing out Rowling's sympathy and compassion for these particular struggles and how they impact the core of moral choices

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (August 06, 2006 5:22 AM) : 

this is a very interesting topic. the link with lupin was cool.

my observations about this unfortunately come from close contact with people with m.s. and chronic fatigue syndrome.

both of these conditions are commonly linked with depression. often they are wrongly diagnosed to start with *as* depression.
however the physiolgical condition is distinct from the psychological one, but obviously they impact on each other.

a clinical depression however, is strongly influenced by chemical and hormonal factors, not purely someone's situation and/or state of mind.

again, who is to say where one starts and the other ends. or where they influence each other.

with lupin, i think that being afflicted with lycanthropy at such a young age simply must impact the way he views himself, and how he perceives others viewing him.

whether it debilitates him or not, doesn't mean he isn't suffering from it.

so i would put 'character' or 'moral fortitude' (as opposed to 'personality') as being a separate part of the equation.

jo

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (August 06, 2006 12:14 PM) : 

Very interesting, Merlin. Rowling just commented that if Voldemort's wand were taken from him and he was sent to a psychiatrist, he would be diagnosed a psychopath, so she is working a mental illness angle with Voldemort.

The Lupin discussion is also interesting.

On the subject of annulments, you might be interested in a recent article by Sandro Magister (Vatican reporter) on the subject of Communion for Catholics in irregular marriages (7-25-2006 entry):

http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/index.jsp?eng=y

Be sure to read the comments for the letter by theologian Fr. Donald J. Keefe, S.J., who thinks the "psychological defect" argument has been overplayed in US tribunals.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (August 08, 2006 8:00 PM) : 

Hi, Merlin! It's JoSelle here, one of the presenters. I stumbled across this post today and am thrilled that you got the recording, and that you found most of what we had to say useful. As for your thoughts on Lupin, in retrospect I agree. It was something I brought up when we were writing the paper, but we didn't pursue it fully because of space considerations (20 page limit!) and because we thought Harry's case was more compelling. We're working on turning our paper into a book, though, and we'll almost certainly revise that part, especially in light of what you said about Tonks and comments from Rowling I've read since then. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

An apology about my "ums" as well. I was violently ill the entire day and almost wasn't able to present (I think the stew at the opening feast gave me food poisoning, either that or the bar food was too heavy). I'm usually a bit more composed under normal circumstances :/.

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (August 08, 2006 8:59 PM) : 

Joselle, great to hear from you and thank you so much for commenting.

And as far as the "ums," I was mainly throwing that in to say that you can't hold a presenter to the same standards as writing (and not finding the "mot juste" ... and apologies if that is not spelled correctly ... been a few years since highschool French and my college writing prof never actually wrote it out on the board, ironically LOL)just due to the setting ... or least I can't because I am twice as bad at public speaking at this point (what's the Tim Robbins' line in "Hudsucker Proxy" - "Like they say, inspiration is 99 percent perspiration, and in my case it's at least twice that!" :) )... and if you thrown any type of fever/stoumach related physical conditions on top of it ... I admire you even more :)

Yeah, I got that impression in general from Vegas and was a bit out of sorts after getting back myself (and I, unfortunately, tend to have an "iron stoumach" - at least on the "heavness" of food thing ... but that sort of iron stoumach is not necessarily a good thing).

Anyway, I really appreciate you stopping by and commenting.

Actually I talked some more about the whole thing of what's going on in the literature she writing as far as psychology in a comment on another post ... it was in response to Jo2 (or JKR2, as her profile name lists on blogger - she is from Australia and actually has a "Jo" first name too ... she swears she is not the author in disguise :) ) ... to her comment in here - I was in a hurry that day and sort of lumping together in that combox

The post that comment is attached to is the one on "Snape's Eyes" and it is my first comment in that thread (I think like the 5th comment in the thread) and I think I addressed something from Felicity first,and then Jo on her comment in this thread on the psychology.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (August 08, 2006 9:07 PM) : 

A hello from me also, and thank you so much for your comments - I welcome intelligent insights from people who came to different conclusions we did, and I'm glad that in spite of the conflicting views you found us entertaining and well-informed. I'm only 20 and first entering my university's social work program - which might explain some of my own "um"s and so on - so making sure I was accurate and fair to both the mentally ill and those people who stress personal responsibility was very important to me.

We'll definitely take a further look at Lupin if we expand the paper into a book, but I did want to address your thoughts on Voldemort, since I wrote and researched most of that part of the paper and was kind of proud of my work there. :)

I doubt Rowling wanted to present an image of Voldemort as a diseased and disabled soul, so I understand what you're saying about these characters functioning as spiritual metaphor. It's just a matter of realistic writing to me, believable writing - Rowling has referenced to Voldemort multiple times as an irredeemable psychopath/sociopath, but beyond even her own comments, many people had a problem post-book 6 with her display of how he 'became evil'.

Without ever seeing the term 'mentally ill', I saw a lot of people noting that Rowling was stressing the idea of choice in these novels while at the same time creating a villain who seemed to be evil from the very start. I won't even go into how the circumstances of birth very often correspond to how a character ends up- and with Voldemort it certainly does. But to look at Voldemort-as-sociopath both settles that and raises so many fascinating questions to me. How much moral responsibility do we have to such people? If someone's very conscience is impaired, their very *ability to love*, how accountable are they? Could Dumbledore have done something, noticing Tom's problems from an early age but doing very little about them? The questions and comments we recieved in response to the Voldemort section of the presentation said we weren't the only people taking it from that angle or gathering those questions. And I think that's because they relate so highly to the book's major themes.

Rowling deals with human nature so realistically on every other level, which is partly why so many people respond to the books. So her characters' lack of care for the psyche, with the very noteable exception of Harry (the only one given such care and thus the only one to emerge from his illness), seems distinct to me. Maybe that's because I've been interested in psychiatry since I was very young, so I actively approach things from that perspective, but I don't think the real-life discipline is so removed from her writings. After all, she once spoke about Voldemort as 'devoid of the normal human responses to suffering'. If that's not a textbook definition of sociopathy I don't know what is.

 

Blogger Pauli said ... (August 09, 2006 1:07 AM) : 

This may be neither here nor there, but here goes.

The presence of a (good) father is one of the strongest indicators of whether or not a child will be straight or turn to crime, much moreso that income bracket or ethnicity. But what's interesting is that the studies which have been done show that if a father dies when the child is young and the widow raises the child alone the results are more like those where the father is present than the ones where the dad dead-beat it to who-knows-where -- like Tom Riddle, Sr. The explanation is that there is a strong moral presence regardless of a physical presence of the faithful father.

Harry seems to possess this strong moral presence of his father whereas Riddle suffers from a vacuum of moral guidance. However, he obviously chooses to turn away from the best moral compass he could have been given, i.e., Dumbledore, and he persists obstinately in this choice to deny the good for years to come. While I would acknowledge what a horrible hand Voldemort was dealt, I don't think he can get off without culpability -- he was given a chance at learning proper control over his gifts and personal attention from the wisest; instead he chose the "will to power."

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (August 09, 2006 2:47 AM) : 

An excellent point with regard to Voldemort's childhood as an influence, but not really the point of our essay - from our perspective, at least, we weren't really discussing Voldemort's lack of childhood (the other orphans weren't torturing animals, as far as wee know). While the causes of antisocial personality disorder are still being debated, there's up to a 50% chance of many of its factors carrying over genetically, which seems to ring true in Voldemort's case - genetic factors that might have influenced him so strongly he would develop a lack of conscience, a lack of ability to properly make the choice in the first place. Voldemort's paternal side is arrogant, his maternal side is predisposed to violence and instability through inbreeding, and Dumbledore describes him as having an 'instinct' for the destruction he causes up to his and Dumbledore's meeting. Coupled with Rowling's most recent statement on him as a rare irredeemable case, I'd say there's some significant evidence that now, if not before, Voldemort can't turn around and make good choices - his very system of making choices, his conscience, is blocked now if not always. Even if that's a recent development, or the result of the horcruxes, it's significant. And as sociopathy requires a childhood diagnosis of a seperate disorder as well, I think it stems back much farther.

Sorry for being argumentative here, and if it's out of bounds I'll hush. It's sort of in my nature. :) Either way, I loved discovering this place and I'll be sure to peek in around here in the future.

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (August 09, 2006 6:36 PM) : 

this is fascinating.

one of the things which intrigues me in the books (and is pretty much what you are saying here) is how much the issue of CHOICE is emphasised.

and yet at the same time comments about someone's parents influence who someone is are all the way through it.

the living maurauders continually emphasise to harry his similarities to his parents.
malfoy is assumed to be a bad egg, cos 'hey, look who his dad is'.

i know that sirius is the hop out of kin, but he's definately an exception.

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (August 09, 2006 6:43 PM) : 

by the way, i woulnd't be looking for change under the sofa cushions to buy milk, if was *that* jkr....

;-)

jo

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (August 09, 2006 6:48 PM) : 

First, let me say, Kim, how cool it is that both you and Joselle have stopped by here, and it makes for some really good interesting conversation and just simply really neat to have presenters from the conference stop by.

Second, just wanted to clarify myself on the statement on the "ums" ... I was mainly trying to be clear for people reading that I was saying that other things come into play in a presentation etc such that, I may be "disagreeing" but I couldn't say fullyas of yet - I know several others of the presenters I heard say about having to drop a point or two for time, which is quite often unavoidable and when it's your won paper a lot of times you can make sure that whatever was in there that was linkage you do drop in real quick, but at the same time one usually wrote the paper with a certain flow and cadence and all when you have to drop for time, somebody. So I guess I mainly just meant it as in a group of things to say "I may be thinking I disagree but it's possible I'm not really be understanding enough of what is really being said to really know if I do or not

... and some people are just naturally better at public speaking ... I mean, listening to Steve Vander Ark, he's just this superstar type and you can tell he's in his flow in his element, totally in his stride, like Brer Rabbit in the briar patch ... I'lll probably never hit that level of comfort in front of an audience no matter how much public speaking I do, even if I make a philosophers stone and live to be a thousand doing public speaking lol (but I do apologize if, in thinking of how nervous I would have been up on the podium, at this stage, if I projected the element of nervousness vs what might have completely other things)

Just on that note as a neat little thing, I have always liked how in book 4 Rowling worked the "sound you use when you can't find the right word to use" or something like that, into the sphynx riddle. She uses that sound a lot with the characters, but I thought it was really cool how she worked even the kind of "hiccup" or sort of "loose" moments of communication into the kind of more concentrated magical stuff like riddles and all. In the tradition I'm coming at it from a lot of times, human communication is a big symbol for the divine and theology and all, and I loved how she worked in even the parts of human communication that might seem to some to be "faltering" or whatever ... kind of like that human communication is all sort of on big package, you can't sort out and accept only the "neatly done" parts.

Anyway, back to the topic. I like what you said about "I don't think the real-life discipline is so removed from her writings" because I think the same thing from the sort of perspective I approach the works from too. One of my things is magic being the praticipation of the kind of spiritual realm of meaning/religion/morality and the "physical" realm of chemical brain characteristis and how envorinment affects the development of personality etc ... which is a really abrreviated/simple way of putting it that needs much more explanation etc to viably handle the real consideration of the matter of psychology and psychiatry. But for here, just to say that, a lot of times in the tradition Pauli and I grew up in (which was a very rigid kind of hyper-Calvinism) they were not of the sort of that would comepletely deny psychology on the pracitcal level, like say if you had to go for therapy or medication etc, but it was more kind of one of the "necessaries" you didn't talk about, at least not in sermons and other venues of
talking about "the true meaning of life" etc etc the places wher eyou would talk about the Bible and all. And I think that for Rowling there is, contra that sort of diconnected thing, a real connection between the two levels of meaning.

In the end I'm still not sure where I stand on the Voldy question ... but it is definitely an interesting one and I think very central to the work. (I am kind of hopping back and forth around the physical parts of this comments, so it may be a little disjointed ... this is actually the last part, timewise, I am working on ... so I apologize if I repeat myslef or sound disjointed ... irs hard in the com box than in the blogger post composition interface) ... but what I say a little bit below about Red Hen's thing of the dementors and the minsistry as the real "villians" ... I forget who it was (I just know it was not my own originality) talking about/theorizing that the Voldy Resolution will happen before the Harry and Snape Resolution ... and these two characters it is much more clear that they are not socio-paths, so I have to admit that I have to leave room for what you are saying and that it makes me think a little more :)

But I will add that I see real concrete material of the psyche disciplines there much more than I see other things some have brought in, like sociology of religion in looking at whether or not the wizarding community accurately reflects the UK demographics in regards to the practice of Christian religion (which, again, I admire the research done by those presenters, I just don't think those sociological factors affect the work on the level that the issue of psychological struggles do, especially with Rowling's statements in person ... in other words I disagreed even more with them :) ... but knowing the inside scoop on "me" I'm not sure whether that fact stands your case in better or worse stead :) )

I had also been thinking some similar things as what was going on between you and Pauli on the issue of birth and upbringing. Red Hen has a theory that I like (which kind of fits with the sort of "responsibility" of the MOM thing) of Voldemort himself being only the most famous and notable problem, but not the core problem ... the core problem being dementors and the question, how do you handle dementors - to which the ministry's answer seems to be that you hire them as the guards of your prisons and set them loose in Surrey to take care of your "problems," when they might meanwhile attack a bunch of innocents as well (that's assuming your target, Harry, was ever really guilty in the first place or that anyone deserves the dementors kiss at all or that you could control such a "game" if you were only doing it to make your target look crazy) ... RH kind of talks about how dementors might hang around nurseries and instill the seeds of "despair and depression" ... and one of the things would be, with a mother and father like Lily and James for a year (which, you would know much better than I, but I have always heard that the first several years are very formative), who have friends like Lupin and Sirius, would a dementor have been able to make it into that nursery? Whereas Voldy's "nursery" in an orphanage ... added to the family history ...

And maybe that love protection from sacrifice gave more than protection from Voldy's touch, maybe it gave Harry a thick skin to the Dursleys too.

That is one that I have always liked, the Dursleys as characters ... what I was saying above about "participation" I kind of worked into, in one post here (http://www.mugglematters.com/2005/10/dd-in-hp.html) on Draco and Dudley. I was going to suggest looking at the effect of the dementor on Dudley as a muggle(especially as, in HBP, the "boy sitting between you who, at least least you didn't inflict the same damage on Harry as you did on him) ... although if I remember right it was a somewhat short passage and may not have much detail that would be distinct from the effects Ron and Hermione on the train etc ... would be interesting though if it did have extra stuff :)

Anyway, I am just sort of rambling now I guess ... I really enjoy yours and Joselle's comments though, they make me think, and that is never bad or argumentative :)

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (August 10, 2006 3:14 AM) : 

Joselle and Kim,
I have been doing some serious thinking ad you are almost winning me over on the Voldy issue ... still not totally there but I am most of the way there.
I'm not sure if you have read Red Hen's theories on the central importance of the dementors and the culpable delinquency of the MOM in this regard but it is really worth reading. Between her and you (and especially your tenacity in sticking to your guns Kim :) ) - I am having a lot more thoughts on what is behind this series, but it is not stuff I would write ad conjecture on in public forum because it deals with certain things being made public knowledge about Jo's life and the level at which a text is a personal expression or commincatio of certain specific things for an author. But seeing it does help me understand what is going on a lot more and have some more deep reespect for what she is tackling in these works, and for both of your work in emphasizing where it goes.

I still hold to my moral readings of the works as a whole and readings from the Christian literary tradition, but what I was saying about her establsihing a real connection between the two realms and the inter-dependance of both plays a lot more now with this. You may be interested in reading my post on "Chiasm and Love: Playing to Potter's Strengths" and the comments thread in regards to this.

And just wanted to say again (hoping you are stopping nack by this thread soon) thank you for commenting and discussing, I'm not just "being nice" in saying that it has been very thought provoking on a level that gives me greater appreciation for the HP series.

 

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