Spidey Snape
| I'm Not sure who sent me this link to this essay. I think it was Felicity, but I have had computer overlap over the past 8 months or so and I think Felicity's original email to us is on my desktop, which is disassembled at the present, so I could not check if it is her email. So if it's not, sorry .. and if it is, thanks, it was a really interesting read. I just wanted to note a couple things that I think are really interesting. The first is to note that this seems to me to be a "bad Snape" theory (classing Snape with WT and Lucius Malfoy as three "martyrs" for profession of "faith" in Voldy ... tying out to 3 marty saints in an inverse image ... not sure I buy this one ... all of Rowling's uses thus far of actual saint connections, such as Hedwig and Godric etc, seem to be straightforward positive images ... I guess she could be doing what this essay suggests here but it would seem maybe a little out of character for her track record thus far, hard to say). The second is that, while is seems to me to be a "bad Snape" essay it also seems to be a "Pro Snape" essay, although it may be a little misleading of me to say it like that. The essay has a doorway link to another site that is part of a ring or something that is all about Snape, but in an acceptable way, as in "good or bad (and some of us in the ring probably have definite oppinions on that) SS is the most interesting and intriguing character in the whole series." ... So, more like that and not really as much like a guy I know who was really into the series up through book 4, said he was disgusted with book 5, read book 6 and said "not as bad as book 5 ... Snape is my man! ... unless he was actually being a good guy when he killed Dufusdore." (I don't think he actually called DD that though, I think that just popped into my head ... either way it pretty much sums up my buddy's feelings for DD, and Rowling, after book 5) The other is in connection with other stuff I have talked about here as far as Snape as a spider. Jo2 told me in the comments I probably had to choose between Snape as being an unregistered spider animagus (as I speculate in the comments, that maybe Snape was the spider in the maze, eh?) and him being a Vampire ... but I think some of the clues this essay notes apply to both spiders and vampires (hanging upside down) and so I am going to try to have my cake and eat it too, insisting that Rowling is just rusing about Snape not being a vamp, noting that somebody could be a wizard vampire and learn to become a spider animagus (nothing technically precludes it :) ) until book 7 is in my grubby little hands and has been plundered by my own bloodshot (from 48 hours straight of reading) vamp eyes ... and then I will probably eat crow and go into sleep recovery :)> But on a more serious note. I like some of the work here, good research on the names Rowling uses and spider connections. But also, seeing Snape as spider presents a deeper meaning level thing from Goblet of Fire, which is that the "answer to the riddle" in the maze, is "spider" and maybe the answer to Tom Riddle is Severus Snape (which fits really nicely with the stuff Felicity has been working on Snape as a "riddler" in book 3 on werevolves and book 6 on Dumbledore as the difference between a ghost and an inferi ... Snape as the riddler who is necessary to undo Riddle) . Also nice attention to detail on the whole "dual attack" - Sirius and James in "Snape's Worst Memory" and Harry and Cedric on the spider in the maze - and if Snape was that spider, or at least tied out strongly imagewise with the spider and that tied to the maze spider, you get a good image of Snape being "within bounds" (if the spider is not Snape but was in the maze as a creature, those running the tourney let it in there, and if it was Snape then he is in there on "School business" of being part of the tourney task etc etc) but also antagonistic. It also just occured to me that in HBP we also have Slughorn seeming like a bit of a spider, spinning his web (I think Harry talks about him as a spider, positioning particularly juicy flies and all ... I'm not sure though about the idea in this essay that Snape might be the spider in the Weasely's broomshed, seems like a bit of a stretch ... and mainly it's way too small to be workable with my theory of him being the one in the maze ... and I just can't have that LOL). So you have the image used of both potions masters thus far, both of whom are Slytherin house ... which makes it a very interesting image indeed. So, thank you for the link, I read voraciously. And on that note, I may not be posting again till sometime next week, seeing as I am heading for NYC tonight, and it may be a bit till I figure out what I have going on internetwise (at the very least I have a wireless card for my laptop and they will most likely have wireless on campus and I will most likely have access as an enrolled student). |
Comments on "Spidey Snape"
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Anonymous said ... (August 30, 2006 7:27 PM)
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Pauli said ... (August 31, 2006 10:47 AM)
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Anonymous said ... (August 31, 2006 2:10 PM)
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Anonymous said ... (August 31, 2006 3:54 PM)
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Merlin said ... (August 31, 2006 5:34 PM)
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Merlin said ... (August 31, 2006 5:37 PM)
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Anonymous said ... (September 01, 2006 3:16 AM)
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Merlin said ... (September 01, 2006 12:21 PM)
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Anonymous said ... (September 01, 2006 4:26 PM)
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Anonymous said ... (September 06, 2006 5:58 AM)
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post a commentYes, I sent you the link, and I'm glad you enjoyed it (I thought you would).
I'm thrilled for you. I hope you'll be posting about school and NYC!
Felicity
Loved the essay. It does seem like people resemble the animals they decide to become in very substantial ways, and/or they become more like them. I'm thinking of Voldemort pointing out that Wormtail has an "affinity with rats" in the "resurection scene" in book 4 (I think that was his word.) Rita, Sirius, McGonagal also resemble their animals, although I can't imagine Sirius-dog chasing McGonagal-cat around the castle. 8^)
I was also thinking of Dumbledore pointing out in the cave that "magic leaves a trace" when used and that Twycross seems a little out of focus from apparating so much. So becoming even more like the animal you choose might be a side affect of being an animagus.
ALSO - the spiders like Aragog seem to have a dubious and complicated loyalty not unlike Snape. They respect Hagrid and hate the evil Basilisk, but you really can't call them good guys, even despite the glowing eulogy of Sloghorn.
Good points, Pauli!
And Snape referred to Wormtail in Spinner's End as "vermin."
I really like this catch:
"ALSO - the spiders like Aragog seem to have a dubious and complicated loyalty not unlike Snape."
So true.
The things I liked best about the essay were the scientific spider name histories and the explanation for Snape's perpetually greasy hair.
I think the scientific names are key although I don't follow how Tobias could be a spider in some way since he's a Muggle (and the essayist seems to imply that Snape got his spidery qualities from his father). But I'm willing to accept it if it's nothing more than a hint pertaining to Snape.
I'm with Merlin in rejecting the "Snape in the broom shed" argument, and it doesn't make sense that Snape could transform into a teeny spider on one occasion and be a monstrously large one on another.
The spider in the maze is very intriguing, especially since human Snape was missing in that scene. I'm not completely sold, however, since Snape would be an unregistered Animagus (or wouldn't Hermione have said something to Ron and Harry when she checked that century's official register to see if Rita was on it?)
My initial quibble concerned Dumbledore's willingness to use Spider Snape in the maze without requiring him to officially register this ability with the MoM; on the other hand, Dumbledore wasn't rushing to the Ministry to register Sirius, and there are good strategic reasons relative to the fight against Voldemort to keep the information quiet.
My persistent quibble is that the MoM's Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures had to know what creatures were being used in the TWT since they brought in the dragons and sphinx. True, Hagrid supplied the Blast-ended Screwt (an illegally bred creature), and Hagrid could be trusted (sort of) with Snape's secret. But wouldn't Diggory and other MoM officials have wanted to know where that huge spider came from? I don't remember if there was enough information to identify the spider in the maze as an acromantula (which would have allowed Hagrid to claim it came from the Forbidden Forest). If it was Snape in the maze, then I'm guessing Hagrid knew about it through Dumbledore (or else he would have tried to adopt Spidey Snape) and will be the one to tell us about it in book 7.
Almost forgot to mention the most important part--that I reject any insinuation that our Severus is not Dumbledore's true and loyal friend. I don't see the trio ganging up on Snape a la Snape's Worst Memory, but I suppose it could happen.
Spread the Good!Snape defense!
I agree on the scientific spider names being a real strong point in the essay because they are a really strong and key point that is right up Jo's alley.
I also agree on the good Snape reading now. When I first read it I was simply sort of "verdict out" ... a lot of the explanations being offered for "good Snape" seemed over-simplistic, basically confalting "good Snape" with "nice guy Snape" who was only being a good teacher when he confronts Harry in front of Hagrid's hut at the gates of the school. I still hold that the "nice guy Snape" is bunk but I also hold that being a "nice guy" is bunk ... and that is one of the things that I like in the Snape .
I think it is a good observation that the spiders hate the evil Basilisk but are not "pro HArry and Ron." I put it that way because I don't think you can state it as simply as saying that "you can't really call them good guys" - I think that what is being challenged is the conception of what "good guys" are. A spider is a spider, it has a spider nature ... which includes indiscriminate carnivorism. As "beasts" they are not necessarily culpable in the same way as humans, but then they are sentient, or at least Aragog is and it's hard to say what status the other spiders, his offspring, have. He is able to control them and order them not to kill, out of his respect for Hagrid.
But either way I would say that they do not kill as Voldemort and the Death Eaters kill, out of evil ... they simply have, as at least part beasts, a simple, indiscriminate carnivorous nature.
Snape too has a certain nature as a Slytherin, and whatever may be revealed about him in book 7. He is loyal to DD like Aragog is loyal to Hagrid (although, this parallel certainly does make things look dim for Snape in book 7, if he is to suffer the same fate as Aragog) ... but he is free from his Slytherin nature to be in conflict with somebody like Harry without being culpable as long as he does not transgress his basic human nature.
Ie somebody like Aragog is more able as a spider to give his consent for the killing of Harry and Ron without it transgressing charity, whereas Snape is a human being and has an obligation by his nature to submit himself to the rule of charity towards Harry, which I think he will do in the end, in the ways that we have discussed here on how both Harry and Snape will need to make some progress each in more fully actualizing charity, particularly towards each other - and the whole thing of unity between Slytherin and Gryffindor and the centrality of Love and all.
Good stuff on the animagi taking on characteristics of their animagus form and this is maybe some explanation of Snape's, shall we call it, mild "carnivorous" character.
Also, I really like the idea of it being Hagrid who reveals these things in book 7. It fits with the whole thing of book 7 being the Rubeus stage of Alchemy for Hagrid to play a central role in the delivery of information that may centrally impact Harry's understanding of the situation and Snape's character.
I just thought about something Sirius said, that when he is transformed into a dog, his thoughts and feelings are less complex, less human, which is how he was able to withstand the dementors at Azkaban.
So if Snape is in the maze, that would give another reason why he was quick to attack--because his thoughts and emotions were closer than usual to the instincts of a carnivorous creature as you noted.
And I forgot to say how much I like the idea of Snape being placed in the maze by Dumbledore as "inside" protection. They all knew someone was gunning for Harry and was using the TWT. So Snape inside the maze and four teachers patroling the four outer walls makes sense.
Felicity,
I like the phrasing on that about 4 teachers patroling the boundaries and Snape as the 5th inside the maze (kind of like he is the "inside man" with Tom the Riddle) ... it fits really well with the whole thing of the pentangle being four elements and then a final quintessence of unity ... which in the "maze protection schematics" would be Snape.
It may not fit extremely tightly though, the four wall-walkers may not be evenly divided among the houses, and one of them is BC Jr, who even as Moody is not really affiliated with a house etc ... I think that maybe the main thing that would sticks (if indeed Snape is the spider in the maze) is the connection between Snape as "inside man" and Snape as any type of "fifth" in general.
Another thing I just thought of on Snape as the little spider i the shed vs Snape as the big one in the maze is that it provides a neat image pairing in the 4th book. If you look at Rita Skeeter's animagus form it is extremely smaller than her normal form, and if Snape is that spider in the maze in GOF(rather than the wee little spider in the HBP shed) his form is much larger than his normal body ... so you sort of have this juxtaposition of an animagus who becomes small and sneaky and one who becomes "bigger than life" (bigger than he is in his normal human form)
Interestingly, Snape's big point in a lot of the occlumency was "not wearing it on your sleave" just as he was all about "not shouting incantations" in both HBP and SS/PS. The spider in the maze is, irononically, sort of Snape wearing his "attacking" nature on his sleeve so to speak (it is exagerated, and thus "undeniable" just as the large spider is bigger than life, and bigger than Snape in his natural form ... did I mention that I just love irony?). In a lot of ways it is a more honest expression than somebody like Skeeter, who is always, like her beetle form, pretending to be "unobtrusive" while being "efficient" about getting her job done, providing the WW with "needed news."
One of the things all of this makes me wonder is who might play a role in book 7 ... basically from that whole thing in the maze, where Harry confronts the riddle, then the spider/maybe-Snape, the Tom riddle as Voldy in graveyard, what happens there is that he faces all but the end with a Hufflepuff (the same Hufflepuff who's team won, for the first time in ages, on the same Quidditch pitch from the Dementors incedent in book 3) ... so I am wondering about people like Hannah Abbot and Ernie Mcmillan and other conspicuously recurring Hufflepuffs and what role they might play in the final book.
Well, months ago I speculated that Harry will go back into the RoR to retrieve the Prince's potions textbook and learn more of Snape's unique self-created spells, and at some point, Snape and Harry will be surrounded by Harry's enemies, and Snape will give Harry a coded message about using one of those spells that no one else listening will understand.
It would be a reversal of OP when Harry was caught using Umbridge's fireplace and was being detained by the Inquisatorial Squad and Umbridge in her office. Snape came in because Umbridge wanted Veritaserum. Harry tried to comminicate with Snape by thinking about Sirius being tortured, hoping that Snape would read his thoughts through Legilimency. When that didn't work and Snape was leaving the room, Harry shouted to Snape, "He's got Padfoot in the place where it's hidden!"
And that was a clue for Snape that Voldemort had captured Sirius and was holding him in the Hall of Prophesies. So I can see a reversal happening in book 7 wherein Snape gives Harry a coded message about one of those spells that no one else but the two of them could know about.
We know Harry's going back for the book because he spent too much effort marking it out with the wig and tiara. And if my guess is close, then Snape will once again provide or be associated with a riddle that Harry will need to solve in order to work through that obstacle (works nicely if we're thinking about seven obstacles to overcome in B7 as there were in B1 and B4).
And of COURSE you noted a chiastic structure with Snape in the maze.
I think the gigantic spider works for Snape because there are so many clues through the book that his powers are extraordinary. He can whip up cauldrons of the "very difficult" Wolfsbane potion for Lupin. He knew more curses as an entering student than half the seventh year class (in PS/SS Hagrid made Harry put down a book of jinxes and said he'd need a lot of training before he could perform any of them).
His AK against Dumbledore blasted Dumbledore's body vertically up and over the ramparts. That fits a pattern: Babymort's AK only made Frank Bryce crumple because Babymort didn't have his full strength and power. Wormtail's AK against Cedric (I argue) blasted Cedric's body into the air, but it was more an up and down vertical lift than an up and over.
This is consistent with the 1) relative power of the wizard casting the spell, and 2) the "super effects" of a spell that is cast by two or more wizards simultaneously against a single target.
You can see the difference in two passages describing the Impediment jinx:
Harry taught it to the DA, but they didn’t need to use cushions because they were only being frozen for a minute or two without falling over; after practicing the Impediment jinx, they pulled out the floor cushions to practice stunning
But two DE’s used it in the DoM, casting the jinx in unison against a group of three students: “Harry, Hermione, and Neville were all knocked backward off their feet. Neville was thrown over the desk and disappeared from view, Hermione was smashed into a bookcase and was promptly deluged in a cascade of heavy books; the back of Harry’s head slammed into a stone wall behind him."
And then there's Snape's hidden boast to the Black sisters when he asked Bellatrix if she thought Snape had been able to fool the most accomplished Legilimens ever (Voldemort), and of course, the answer was yes, which means Snape must be the most accomplished Occlumens ever.
So I'm warming up to the Spidey Snape in the maze theory, and I can see a possibility via the Prince's unique spells how Harry will face a Snape riddle in B7.
This is such an interesting theory. I hadn't really noticed when the spider references began, because there are also times when Snape sounds more like a bat, with his flowing robes--yet another instance of Rowling misdirecting us.
I'm more inclined to believe that Snape was the spider in the maze, rather than the spider in the shed. And it's mainly because it would make sense for Dumbledore to place him in the center of the maze--what a great way for Dumbledore's man to keep an eye on Harry. Though, I suppose that the spider in the shed and the one in the maze could have been one in the same if someone had used the engorgio spell on it that we saw with Fake Moody in class.
Really, though, I don't think so. I just re-read that part of GOF about the Third Task. The chapter begins with the trio discussing Snape where Harry tells Ron and Hermione that Dumbledore told him that yes, Severus Snape was a Death Eater but he is not now, and he, Dumbledore, trusts Snape.
The discussion then goes to Rita Skeeter, with Hermione still trying to figure out how she overheard all the things she shouldn't have heard at all.
Snape is no longer part of the focus of the chapter, and when the champions go down to the maze (which is not unlike a spider web), it's Hagrid, Moody, McGonagall, and Flitwick who are there to patrol the outside of the maze. Rather odd that Snape is not mentioned at all, as he is usually part of any patrolling that the students see.
When Harry is confronted with the Sphynx and has to solve the riddle, he finds it very challenging and thinks that it's Hermione who is good at that sort of thing. Where have we heard that before, except in Chamber of Secrets in the Potion room, which she knows was set by Professor Snape; it's brilliant because it requires logic, which many wizards are rubbish at. Now Harry has to use logic to figure out the riddle which is the clue to the next creature he encounters--the spider.
The spider does seem fairly vicious towards Harry (just as Snape is sometimes very vicious towards him), but likely wouldn't kill him. Rather, the spider seems more intent on preventing Harry from getting to the Cup. Given everything that we've seen between the two of them, I doubt that Snape wanted Harry to win the TWT.
When I see spiders in or around my house, I generally leave them alone or take them outside. We don't have many poisonous spiders in the Pacific Northwest, so generally they are more interested in killing insects rather than in attacking humans. I think Snape being a spider animagus fits very well, and I can't believe that I didn't think of this one before.
Pat (Eeyore)