Muggle Matters Home
About our site
Make Site Suggestions
Narrative defined (Merlin)
Silver & Gold (Merlin)
Elendil's Sword (Pauli)
"X" Marks/Chiasm (Merlin)
Literary Approaches (Merlin)

Travis Prinzi




Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

We hope you enjoy reading our Harry Potter discussion weblog. Please feel free to leave a comment and return often for more discussion.



 
 
View blog reactions
Add to Google
Add this blog to my Technorati Favorites!

Harry Potter and the Gift of Death
Death Within and Without: Being Towards Death
Interesting Intersections
Eeyore Moving On
Reflections and Traces in Deathly Hallows
Narrative Perspective and Rowling's Writing
The Stabat Mater ("Standing Mother") and Feminine ...
Godric's Garden
Dumbledore Deconstructed in Deathly Hallows
Magic "Like Fire in the Bones" in Deathly Hallows


----------------------------------------------------------------------- -->

Hogwarts, Hogwarts,
Hoggy Warty Hogwarts,
Teach us something please,
Whether we be old and bald,
Or young with scabby knees,
Our heads could do with filling,
With some interesting stuff,
For now they're bare
And full of air,
Dead flies and bits of fluff.
So teach us stuff worth knowing,
Bring back what we forgot,
Just do your best
We'll do the rest,
And learn until our brains all rot!



1: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2: Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3: There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4: Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5: Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6: His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8: The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9: The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10: More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11: Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12: Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13: Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14: Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Thursday, December 13, 2007

Pirates of the Bronx: At Semester's End

Sorry, Mate ... Just couldn't resist

So, I'm a little short on sleep right now from a paper. Was going to sleep for longer today but there was the office Christmas thing and lunch with a candidate for a post on faculty (they like to have candidates have lunch with grad students in their specialty while they are here, this guys was in OT) and then I was going to come back and catch up on sleep but then realized it would be probably be a good idea for me to turn up at the talk the guy was giving at for (part of his visiting as a candidate) - was pretty drowsy during the talk but after was more awake, so ...

Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End came out on DVD on the 5th and I got a copy but told me-self I could not watch it or the extras till everything was done - but then I was relatively awake, but realizing I would not be so long enough to make it worth getting started, since on this little sleep it is a better idea to catch up some on it

so ... you guessed it ... while I did not watch the movie, I did go through the extras

Quite simply: this movie rocks more every time I look at stuff from it. I highly recommend watching the extras - the work that went into that final battle in the maelstrom is every bit as over the top as the scene itself is in the finished movie (for which I have made a case, contra those who complain that the movie, and that scene was just too over the top, that that is life, especially on PoMo readings ... "Into the Abyss" is where life takes place and the Spirit is ever brooding over the chaotic face of the deep). And Hans Zimmer ... quite simply rocks - great peace on his work on the score For here, only briefly, I have four findings.


I will go through them from the shortest to the longest, since I would not want the reader to get tired out by my longer discussions (and the last point is VERY long because it gave way, contrary to my original intention, before inserting this parenthetical here, to the previously promised discussion on recent statements of "authorial intent" by Rowling), - I would not want the reader to do this if the reader is prone to do so, and miss out on having at least the reward of the shortest one, which is just a really fun factiod, so I put it up first.

1.
Gore Verbinski, the director, actually plays guitar in the movie. No, it is not an over-dub of the "Spanish Ladies" piece played by Captain Teague ... that part is actually played by Richards himself onscreen. Verbinski plays the only part in the whole movie score that is rock instrumentation: the haunting distorted electric guitar overlay in the scene where Will, Beckett and Jones meet with Barbosa, Elizabeth and Jack on the sandbar between the two armadas just before the final battle in the maelstrom (the one that sounds a little like some of the "ballad" stuff Metallica has done). Interesting too ... Hans Zimmer used to be in the rock music industry.

2.
Hoist the Colors:
The song was actually composed from scratch, both melody and lyrics, by not only Hans Zimmer, but Hans Zimmer and Gore Verbinski working together. Also on that song: I had written on here after I watched the movie umpteen times in the theater and then gotten a pirated version on Canal St in lower Manhattan, of my theory of the "meaning" of that song. In the movie Sao Fang's lieutenant sings "never SAY we die," but I was pretty sure that when the pirate chorus sings it at the beginning that it was "SHALL we die." And indeed, in the English subtitles for the extras piece on the song (where at least an original recording was done with Zimmers wife, who just happened to be in the studio that day, singing the song like a young boy), it is indeed, "never SHALL we die."

My whole original comment was that the "never" has a secondary undertone of "EVER shall we die." That word in the gallow-pirates chorus is particularly fuzzy, sounding like it could be either. It was this, after looking online and finding a consensus for "never" (probably based in using the version by Sao Feng's lieutenant as a comparison source), that first presented to me the idea to me of two meanings arising from the "fuzziness," one primary and one secondary. The primary meaning is the "never" because this is what the brethren court intended in binding Calypso. The secondary meaning of "ever" is the reality of the thing - the "being towards" death I will take up in observation number 3.

3.
Being Towards Death:
There is a line I missed in previous viewings because of the chaotic setting and the quickness of it. But it is a central line for the case I have been making (while trying not to tip my hand too much on the contents of an essay I want to write and try to get published), concerning this movie's great manifestation of Heidegger's "being towards death" (which makes it fit well with HP because I have been making a similar case regarding Deathly Hallows). The line is one of two in the pairing off of the two captains, Barbosa and Jones, against each other in the battle in the abyss. I just mentioned, in the parenthetical, Jone's line, "into the abyss" (forget if I mentioned this or not, but the abyss is also a translation for the Hebrew word in that Genesis 1 passage, "the deep," and it is a very key term for Heidegger, the "ab-ground" that is the "nothing" out into which human existence, "dasein," is constantly held, and for Heidegger this is intimately bound up in the "being towards death"). But Barbosa's pairing line, when he takes the helm after Elizabeth and Will tell him they need him, relates directly to the "being towards death": "Dying is a Day worth Living For" (which echoes with Will's central line to his father, when Bootstrap says that 10 years at sea is a heavy price to pay for one day ashore with his wife: "it all depends one day" - and speaking of creation in Genesis 1, the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, does not read "the first day," but rather "the one day" - a point out of which the Church Fathers made a great deal in developing Christian eschatology, including in relation to Sunday as the 8th day, the "ogdoad," and the 1 day beyond the created 7 day order of Genesis 1-2).

4.
The Long Awaited DVD Answer On Will's Destiny:
In regards to this "being towards death" the one thing I was looking forward to in the DVD release was a rumored 23 extra minutes of deleted footage, which contained, among other things, material pertaining to the exact nature of Will's contract with the Dutchman as her captain. Well, that 23 minutes was only a rumor. The deleted scenes include only 2 brief scenes. BUT, I was rewarded on the matter of Will and the 10 years aboard the Dutchman. Rumor had had it that what was to be revealed was that Will had only one 10 year stint to do to fulfill the terms of service, and then he could stay on land with Elizabeth for the rest of his life all the time. This is not the case, and I am very glad. Rather than extra scenes, the DVD included in the insert a list of "top questions movie goers had about POTC: AWE" ... and the second question is that of one 10 year stint or a continuing system ... and the definitive answer in the insert is the latter.

The reason I was so glad about this is actually very pertinent for recent events of public statements in Potter-land. In the "text" of the movie as it stands the best case that could be made for the shorter terms is that the text is ambiguous and leaves that question unanswered. But I do not think that position (of the text as completely ambiguous on the matter) stands up very well because it does not adequately describe the text. If one asks the question of the text, one must follow the logic in the text: Will replaced Jones, whose original accord was the longer, repeating, schema., and thus these are the terms of Will being captain. There is no going back to "normal" life. To quote Val Kilmer's Doc Holladay in the movie Tombstone: "there's no such thing as normal life, Wyatt, there's just life" ... and death (this line is spoken on Holladay's death bed).

(I am also apposed to readings of this text that view the 10 years at sea as the man "going out every day to return at night, bringing home the bacon" concept of "normal life." That leaving and returning is a part of human existence, but this thing of "being towards death" - Will's specific task of ferrying the dead is central, as are his death and resurrection - the latter term used specifically in the DVD insert. It is the same with Harry: even though he goes on with life and marries Ginny and has a family with her, it can no longer be "normal life." Those events changed him radically and definitively. The scar has not even prickled in 19 years ... but he still remembers it and his hand still goes there by instinct.)

Don't Mess With the Text: From Pirates to Potter
The logic of the recurring 10 years stands as it is in the logic of the movie's text and I am glad they did not muck things up with some statement of authorial intent outside the text that muddied the waters of the text itself. The way that the reason I was so happy connects with recent Potter statements is that the logic of the text stands as it is, on its own. If that logic is flawed or not well written then that is just the way it is ... adding "extra" material does not fix the problem with the text as it stands unless you write a new text. And even on that issue, I see no reason to say that the text as it stands has lacunae that require explanation. And I don't think the proposed answer to a supposed lacuna is anywhere near as present, if at all, in the DH text as the author sees it. I don't doubt she had that reading of the character long before, maybe from the start, but I think she let the story tell itself by its own logic and that that logic does not contain that element for that character (neither that specific form, nor the question in general, either "same" or "opposite").

"Authorial intent" versus "author providing information on details."
When sounding the war-cry of the "new criticism" (as I am apt to do) - "don't commit the fallacy of authorial intent!" - I would distinguish between authorial intent and information on details provided by the author. Under the latter I would place such material as giving the sources of images used (e.g. noting that the source directly and concretely impacting the nature of the four houses is the classical four elements cosmogony - but even in that case I would differentiate between what can be said about - such as, for example, that the four elements comprise the nature of the physical cosmos, just as the four houses comprise the English wizarding world's concept of the composition of the defining trait of their "world" as distinct from other worlds, such as the muggle world, with special emphasis on the fact that the author concretely uses the "world" terminology, which generally translates the Greek "cosmos" - from my own theories and comments, as an interpreter, of how the interaction between the individual four elements works out in the text).
As an example from the wider world of literature (and I only know this one from doing a paper on it in undergrad) I would offer the example of informing the un-informed that the dates given as the headings of the four sections of William Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury are the dates of the Tuesday and Thursday-Saturday of Holy Week (in the year 1938 and, for the Tuesday, the Quentin Compton section, for 1928, I believe, but I would have to look it up, the years are given in the date headings), and thus one is justified in using Holy Week as an interpretive matrix for the novel. I do not believe that the statement in question falls under the heading of such information, but properly under the improper understanding, and really inflation, of the natural role of "authorial intent."

As an example of such considerations of what is "in the text" take my comments on a possible Harry-Hermione thing, in remarks exchanged with Jo from Australia just after the release of DH. In those comments, if I remember them correctly (and if not, take this as an opportunity to edit that text of mine by here making a new text with the inaccurate material struck from the old text and this material inserted), that the presence of a real thing was ever even actually present. I think that the case is that the logic of character types and of experience lends itself to the possibility of something, but that is not the same as the thing itself actually existing between the two. I think a key element is the absence of Ron as a result of his actively leaving. I believe that it is only in this absence that logic of the character types and that of the emotionally intense common experience, without Ron there, ever even even have arisen at all, in any way shape or form, on Hermione's radar, even subconsciously (which is why I think Hermione was so upset with Ron for leaving - but on my reading it is also entirely possible that the blip on the radar is only subconscious and that Hermione could not consciously tie out this element as a contributing factor for her anger - but, as I said then, I do think that things such as the posing as a middle-aged muggle married couple so support the element as a factor in the text, at the very least in the use of the images, even if not at all on the level of the Hermione character, although I do think the latter at least possible, and my gut feeling sides with even at least probability, but how much I can "prove" is of course another matter - and here I am arguing in a different fashion from the "fun logic of images" I speak of sometimes, when I say I am not trying to proof-text or provide "evidence" for certain things, - here I am trying to provide evidence to support a certain reading of a certain possible element in the text).

I do not think that the thing itself ever actually occurred in the text, only the latent possibility according to only the logic of character types and of the common experiences in that context. And I do not think Hermione ever chose (consciously or subconsciously) to follow those logics, but simply that they did put a real strain on her emotionally in Ron's absence (a tenet I would list on the "latent" level, but still concretely in the text on that level) ... a strain to which Harry was totally oblivious (the reason you go with someone is because you actually are drawn to them not because they are "your type" or simply because there is a certain logic in sharing certain general experiences together, even if those things contribute secondarily - and obviously in the final moment it is a matter of a choice, an act of the will).

I think that is the state of the text as it stands in this case(on Harry, Hermione and Ron - the last especially evident in what Ron sees in the locket ... if it is in Ron's mind and read by the Voldy-Crux, Hermione can probably guess that it is in Ron's mind) and no statements of authorial intent would change that (the author might be able to change my opinion by their own arguments as an interpreter of the text, the same as any other interpreter might be able to by presenting arguments), just as statements that seem to me to fall distinctly under the class of "authorial intent," such as those actually made, will not change my read on that issue.

On a further matter concerning that public statement, the matter of the public reception, I do not necessarily fault the author, but I do think that giving statements of interpretation, given the fact that in this case the interpreter in question is also the author, has seriously muddied the waters on the issue.

John Granger has suggested in a post on the matter that one should heavily qualify the nature of that statement by observing the context. I don't disagree (at least not necessarily, not being in a privileged position to discern such things) with his assessment of the statement as heartfelt and honest and directed primarily to the questioner. What I disagree with in Granger's assessment is the contention that those parameters definitively define the context of the statement. This was not simply a private conversation, or even a Q&A session of a talk given in an auditorium filled with persons with a specialized interest in an academic matter, where the only audience outside the physical walls that will probably ever hear the answer are the academic readers of a peer-reviewed academic journal. The real context of the statement involves a very pervasive world wide-wide media in which often occur very heated and polemical ad-hominem campaigns (and even the original question evidences the differences: an audience interested in such academic textual matters would not generally ask a question of that nature - I do not mean to infer any ill mark on the questioner whatsoever, but such a question arises, I think, from conflating what the experience of the text means for a person, in their particular life-situation, with the text itself).

(Wow, the end of that last paragraph, before the parenthetical, sounds so much like my roommates recent paper on Augustine on "gapped" texts, that the understanding of context and its role in genre-type plays a central role in the "meaning" of texts.)

In other words, I think Granger (and probably the author, but I cannot say for sure), while calling attention to the context, have quite misunderstood the true scope of that context.

I also think that Granger does not give proper consideration and weight to that matter of heated ad-hominem arguments in the public arena. One might take a view "against" but see a need to nuance it greatly in order to convey what they believe (such as not being mistaken as implying that certain people will necessarily go to hell if they do not leave a certain lifestyle ... although here it would be a matter of further debate whether, or to what extent, the categories of "insurmountable ignorance" apply or to what extent the psychological conditioning of certain experiences can impact a person in certain areas - and those experiences can drastically effect the psychological: just two days ago I was talking to the professor I spoke of who teaches the class on Corinthians, and he told me the story related to him by a man of how the man's son wound up in a holding cell and was subjected by other inmates to certain things, in other words forced and by no means of his own free will; after six months of not telling anyone the son took his own life). But if one takes such a stance and holds such a view, as I do (and as the Church of John's active creedal affiliation does), such a statement as this by the author potentially gives rise to certain problems. Holding such a nuanced position, one might wish to exercise discretion by "choosing ones battles," and such an authorial statement might seriously limit one's ability to exercise such discretion (I personally try to exercise discretion, not simply for the matter of considering when and where a statement might or might not be effective, or to what degree, but because when making a statement I wish not to be misunderstood, for instance, on the distinction between the simple having of certain inclinations, and the acting upon those inclinations, especially if the misunderstanding meant being construed as saying "you are abhorrent and going to hell simply for having the inclinations" and I tend to gravitate towards situations in which I have more chance of being able to make such distinctions and nuances. For instance, while my roommates might not agree with me, they do know my beliefs and we are able to get along, but many others do not have that privilege of being able to say they concretely know where I stand ... unless they happen to be reading this blog post I guess). If one is of such a mind, and is a PhD student at a large university, and is known to be a practicing Catholic, and is also known to be a huge Harry Potter fan, as I am ... situations which one might otherwise avoid might become unavoidable from causes not within one's control, including, as the first such factor, the author's public statement. In such a case one will likely be written off as "phobic," without the chance to explain one's position adequately (fortunately this has not yet happened to me personally ... but given things as they are, it is not necessarily unlikely ... and the further consideration that should be added in my situation is that, if asked on the matter, I do not wish to betray my faith, I prefer to be honest).

Granger gives an example of, when he worked for Whole-Foods, a certain label being applied to himself owing to his marriage and large family (the term rhymes with "feeder"). Being so labeled does not seem to have affected him greatly, but his charitable disposition (and I mean that description of him in all seriousness of respect) does not changed the bigoted nature of someone labeling somebody else that way. Granger makes the statement that such polemicists from the "against" side (as I mention below parenthetically) wrongly take the matter to the level of "election year politics"; but I would argue that the true state of affairs in our cultural context, especially give the aforementioned pervasive world-wide mentioned above is that ... it's always an election year.

In short, I think that in trying (and I freely admit that I think he does so with the best intentions) to "pour oil on the water," Granger really just adds fuel to the fire. Better simply to say something nebulous like "well, its a thing people are naturally going to disagree on" and leave it at that (which, in and of itself would be enough to send those who are unfortunately given to agitated polemics "against" and lack of discretion in how they handle such a situation - if looking to distinguish oneself from such polemicists is the desired goal of such as statement ... such polemicists tend to settle for nothing less than very animatedly hopping on their side in no uncertain terms - but I would differentiate between such polemics and generaly being a bit perturbed by the statement, and I don't think Granger addresses this distinction sufficiently enough to justify the statements he himself make ... just my take on it). Better to make such brief and nebulous statements than to go to the lengths he has chastising those who were upset for being so vocally so (or at least that is how I read his statements, but that may just be me for the reasons I stated just now). For this reason, while I disagree with the polemicists (on both sides of the fence), I do not find the same fault as Granger seems to (at least in that one piece as I understood it) with some being agitated by the statement.

On the score of the question of whether or not the statement of "authorial intent" impacts the meaning of the text, even some decidedly, publicly, and even polemically, on the one side (the "pro" and activist side) have argued that it does not, such as John Cloud in Time, who basically said (in a piece in time days after the author's statement) "you're not doing any good for my side ... put the character back where the character was before your statement -in the ...."

All that having been said, I do think that it is a legit question to ask whether this particular author, in her particular time and life situation, would have written such a character (who we all have found genuinely VERY endearing) without such a concept (not "could this character be written without this concept" in general, but in the very particular case of this author) ... and the attendant question of whether or not any body else, period, could have given us this particular character. I do not know the answer to that question, but I do think it is a valid question to ask. It is a question that applies to the way in which the text arises, as distinct from the text itself, but I do think it a legitimate question to ask.

so, there you have it for what it is worth: Merlin's literary theory (101) and read of recent major HP events and the responses to them ... I wouldn't necessarily advise quoting it in any significant debates if I were you (not for my own sake ... for yours lol). I was not planning on making the big long statement on the recent HP developments and Granger's commentary on them. I was planning just to make a short post on Pirates the Caribbean and then put me to bed, but oh well.

Now I really am going to bed.
posted by Merlin at 7:38 PM


Comments on "Pirates of the Bronx: At Semester's End"

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (December 14, 2007 1:55 AM) : 

Something else just came to me so I thought I would toss it in a comment. At one point I say that Granger and possible the author, misunderstand the true scope of the context of the statement. I would still hold that for Granger, and I would hold it for the author in the initial statement of and up through the "I always thought of ... as ...". But at this point in the public comments by Rowling I see a shift(the following is what, in the academic world, is referred to as "subjecting the text to a close reading").

In that initial comment I can see the the possibility of what Granger says being the context thought of by the author: a heartfelt answer to a heartfelt question in the context only of those present hearing it. But her response to the applause displays a shift to recognition of the larger context I speak of. She says something to the effect of "If I had realized you would respond so positively I would have said it long ago." I am paraphrasing but I do have surety on the central element for my argument here: the use of the pronoun "you."

"You" cannot refer to the questioner unless she has known the questioner before, and there (unless on posits the unlikely hypothesis that the questioner was a plant by Rowling herself, which changes things altogether, locating it in the realm of polemics and blowing most of what Granger says right out of the water ... but I raise this hypothetical only by way of hyperbole in stating that I don't think Rowling knew the girl before ... otherwise I'm sure this question itself would have come up long ago ... but I do have to admit here that I keep using the term "questioner" out of a fun subtle HP allusion to the stir this whole thing caused ... On his way yo his first meeting with DD in HBP, at p. 195, Harry overhears Trelawney reading her cards in the hall: "Knave of spades: a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner - " I don't dislike the questioner, but it is a nice reference to the stir this whole thing caused).

And this audience, with these particular people, is in no way a regular meeting group with whom Rowling could have even had regular personal acquiantance before. So the "you" cannot refer to this particular audience in the building.

The only possible referent for the "you" is the nation-wide/world-wide audience from whom this particular audience has been culled by means of the lottery.

Even if Granger is right that the original context should be viewd as just the conversation with the girl and ... that context as far a who Rowling is addressing changed right here. From here on out she is speaking on the world-wide public stage not only effectually, but also to some degree or another cognizantly. It's at this point that I start to frown a bit, for the comment seems to me to recognize not only the larger context, but also the likely controversial reception of the content.

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (December 14, 2007 8:49 PM) : 

Ok, here, after some sleep, is my final read on the context of the statements by Rowling.

I think there was awareness of the tension surrounding this issue from the start of the statement, even in the first part. I see no other reason to call attention to the issue of the honesty of the question and the answer - no reason to proceed cautiously by reiterating the honesty of both. But I think that that initial reiteration was honest (at least from what I can tell) respect for the delicacy of this issue. But it seems to like with the shift, in response to the applause, of the more immediate recognition of the context of the larger audience (meaning the world-wide audience) there entered a moment of decision springing from that recognition, from the recognition of not just the delicacies as they impact this particular conversation inside these particular walls but of the tensions as they exist and are fought over in the world-wide public arena.

I make this next statement with the reservation that I am cautious about how strongly I would state it, and how conclusive I can be about it (based of course in the specifics of the source texts, IE reliable reports of exactly what was said and happened in the specific instance of the comments being made, which is all that I have), but it seems to me like the moment of decision and the choice (however conscious vs subconscious) were a choice to join the world-wide polemical debate decidedly on the one-side rather than the other. In that I mean "the other side" as including any and all positions of even any reservation at all about issue under consideration. The author's own position may not be so "hard-line" but it is difficult for me to buy complete ignorance about the nature of the divide in the public arena (from the "pro" side it is usually an attitude of "if you're not for us you're against us," if you're not marching in the protest parade you might as well be hunting us down and sticking us in medieval/WWII style ghettos), It is really difficult (all the contextual "nuances" of Granger and others aside) for my to buy no recognition that the statements made (especially with the shift in recipient indicated by the stuff I mentioned in the last comment about who the "you" is in the context of the time specification of "before" and "long ago"), and difficult for me to see that statement then as not making a choice to change from previous distance on the issue, as a participant (or rather non-participant, in maintaining such distance) in any world-wide debate on it, and to "throw in" with one "side" versus another.

The "oh my, the fanfic" statement seems to me like a throwing it all to the wind, meaning the distance she had previously kept from the whole issue of certain types of fanfic, making (I think consciously) a statement (meaning this particular statement on fanfic) that she knows will be taken as support by the one side and saying "oh well."

In other words, In the stages of the comments from the stage it seems to me like there is a progression towards giving up a previous respect for the delicacy, from both sides of the fence, of this issue, to the above mentioned "throwing in" with one "side" in the world-wide debate (even if a "de facto" throwing in, I cannot get around it being a consciousness of the fact that it is a de facto throwing in, and thus a throwing in by choosing to provided the material that dictates the de facto throw in, in the given context of the world as it is).

(2).

All of that having been said, my main reaction (and what I would really suggest as an adequate response to such polemicists as I have mentioned) is "unfortunate" and ending at that(and I still think that, if this response is made just like that, as a one word response with then moving onto the next subject without beating this one to death and screaming anathemas from the rooftops, or at least from private living room couches, which is more likely, it will be every bit as frustrating to such polemicists as I have mentioned and serve quite as well to place onself distinctly not in their polemical constituency ... these polemicists tend to be every bit as hard line from their side as the others I mentioned above are from theirs ... I still think the best path is that of "silence" that Thomas More tried, but I hope it works better for us than it did for him - although, he is a canonized saint, so it worked out all right for him in the end).

(3).

It is not the end of the world for me (and definitely does not change my appraisal, or thorough enjoyment ,of the books), even if it does make me a little bit sad (to see another figure added to the "army" rosters or "evidence" lists of either side of such polemical battles) and a little frustrated in certain ways. I had the same response to critical remarks made by Rowling concerning CS Lewis' final stuff on Susan Pevense in the Chronicles, which seemed to me like a real lack of understanding, and maybe a giving in to public pressure, or at least the perception of public pressure. Lewis is often viewed to be a prude and sort of derided by the "liberal" side etc and so in making public statements, if one is worried about the perception of oneself as a prude, one might seek to assure the public, or one faction within it, and distance itself from another faction in it, by making disparaging remarks about a common background literary person/element like CS Lewis and the Susan thing (that's my read of it ... outside of the HP books and publicly made comments ... I don't know JK Rowling from Eve ... I do admire her stance to charity, although I do hope Amnesty International re-neutralizes their position by heeding the advice of the US Catholic Bishops and takes certain issues back off their "human rights" platform that they have recently added to it ... that having been said, that I can not claim to be privy to knowledge of that nature about JK Rowling outside of the actual text and wording of public statements, it must be said that a public statement is by nature a public statement and by nature subject to such speculation, the very context of the thing means that it is a public thing and not simply a private statement of what one thinks or believes, especially at this level of celebrity. I am very grateful for the books, I love them and I think they can do a lot of good in this world, but it is simply the nature of the beast that when one rises to such a level of prominence on can no longer be just "a single vote." Which is why if Rowling or anyone else in such a position were to ask me, which is highly unlikely and probably for very good reason, I would advise to err on the side of caution, distance and reticence ... my personal opinion is that the recent comment was not really necessary - the locus of the issue is in the text) ... but, as I say, human beings are human - it's not the end of the world for me, just a bit unfortunate

(4).

... on the Susan thing, just to put my 0.02 in on that: I do not think that the issue Lewis wrote of was Susan discovering [x]... I think it was a matter of Susan discovering larger societal networks (in this case those particular types of relationships, and the attendant aspects and practices, such as lipstick) and THEN (and this is, for Lewis, I think, the real reason for censure of Susan) moved towards valuing society for it's own sake - to the exclusion of the magical/mystical side of life.

(5).

Now, I also wanted to clarify about what I said in the post about the "issue" both "general" and "specific" not being in the character. I don't think that the issue of orientation really arises in the text for any of the characters (Cloud, whom I mentioned, complains about it not being an issue, saying he gave it a "pass" in the first few books because they are kid's books, but as the novels grew more serious considered the lack a bad mark on the books. To this I would probably ask if one would give something like POTC a bad mark for not having it? On this read the only real litmus test for the quality of a work of literature or art is whether or not it specifically includes this question/element/issue in concrete instances ... one would have to criticize POTC even more greatly because even from the first movie there are onscreen questions of, um, "impotency" etc ... but not this issue ... and I don't buy that reading of Jack Sparrow as concretely this way, he's fay but I don't think ... all that talk of salty wenches, all those slaps in the face)

The issue of attachments and development of those attachments does arise for some characters (hence my discussion of the trio) ... but I don't think that even this issue [attachements of this sort in general] arises for the character in question (and thus, again, I would have said a better response to the question would have been to point to the in-text comments by the character concerning those types of relationships, and that this would have served better to connect with the questioner's endearment to the character and the role such endearments play in a reader's own personal concerns such as identity and feeling - but, like I said, that is my own personal opinion on it ... coming up to the DH release there was some speculation, once concerning the witch who runs the candy trolley on the train and comments regarding the character in question using the secret tunnel to HoneyDukes, comments that made me think "whatever ... sounds to me the major thing you [this particular commentator] do, outside of read HP, is watch soap operas and titter about gossip)

(6).

Now, having said all that, I do have a further thing to say about the question I posed as one I see as legit; on whether or not this particular author could have given us this particular character without that particular element being in this particular author's mind (in the context of this particular author's life experiences etc). That is on the way characters come to "exist." Some do make characters who are entirely two-dimensional allegorical representations of real world characters/elements. I am thinking here of works like Bunyan's .. I do not think Rowling has any characters like this- all of her characters seem to me like good 3 dimmensional characters - even the one she says does have a real life referent of an actual character in the public world, even that one has a good deal of character breadth, that having been said, I do think many characters have real life referents (Aunt Marge is commonly noted as Thatcher, I have argued for Lupin as representing something more general like the burden of psychological malady, Umbridge definitely stands in for certain types of ruling regimes), just that they are not limited to these aspects.

But what I am talking about here is more the "sources" for the character as he or she appears on the page, what I have and would refer to as "image" sources. One strand of such sources are other well known "literary" figures (putting that in quotes to convey that I do NOT mean only fictional characters, but sometimes religious /historical, as in the example I am about to give). I think Tolkien's Gandalf is partially built on Moses (read the striking of the rock that brings forth water in Numbers, versus the event in Exodus, and then read the the chapter on the opening of the "back door" of Moria - one is told to speak to the rock/stone, but instead strikes it [in the book Gandalf actually strikes the stone door with his staff out of anger/frustration, but in the movie this is turned into some more general "lets try a wizard type thing by pressing the staff to the symbol on the door and saying an incantational word"], just after a "first-born" [Israel is refered to as the first born son of Yahweh] has complained "why did you bring us out here then? to die?" - and then go ahead to the repetition of the striking of rock/stone on the bridge of Kazadum that results in Gandalf not making it to the "Golden Land" of Lothlorien, like Moses does not enter the promise land because of striking the rock out of anger) - but I do not think Gandalf is a mere allegory of Moses in the Bible - Moses is one of the image sources Tolkien uses to build his own distinct 3 dimensional character.

In a case like the present, my guess (and it is only a raw guess)would be that one of the sources might be a person known by the author in real life who has the element in question in the recent statements, as well as some of the elements that make it onto the page and have become so endearing to us. In a case like that it is difficult for an author or any person to separate out those elements, for the very good reason that it is quite unhealthy for us to go around dissecting people we know, or anyone, into their different "parts" (on this cf a well-done image in CS Lewis'Pilgrim's Regress in the prison of the giant of "the spirit of the age" - where the horrible thing about the prison is that when sunlight comes in everyone in there can see everything about everyone else in there, meaning not just that they are naked, but they can see entrails etc - it is an image of dissecting human persons up as is sometimes done in the name of sciences like sociology and psychology [although there are legit practices of these as well] rather then apprecitiating the beauty of the human person as a whole).

I would say, of course, that by the same token it is not good to equate all elements in person with each other, but we human beings are not, after all, infallible (that being the case my advice would be to err on the side of caution in making such statements as the author made in public).

If such is the case (the author knowing somebody like I described) it is logical that the author, being, as I said, human, might connect those elements in ways they are not really connected ("I always thought of ... as ..." might come from basing certain endearing characteristics from a real life acquaintance who was also ...), at least not in the way the author sees it. By this I mean what Granger has referred to in the considerations as this thing being seen, in PoMo thought, as a primary instance of "the other" who is subjected to bigotry. In such a friend or acquaintance, the arising of the onpage characteristics we are all endeared to, may have in real life in fact developed from enduring some form of bigotry (here I mean bigotry against even having experienced certain tendencies at all, whether or not one has "officially" entered a particular "lifestyle" - and such bigoted situations do actually occur, although I would add, as I said in this post, that I think the other pole of having ANY form of a traditional belief on the matter of practice has now become also an instance of the "excluded other" subject to bigotry, hence the situation Granger described from when he worked at Whole-Foods, which I am guessing had nothing to do with any positive statement by him concerning his own beliefs or that of his Church, but was, and I can only guess here, made simply against the fact that he is married with a large family).

But what I have just described is not the same thing as the other elements that appear on the page always going hand in hand with the element under discussion . It is, rather, a case of certain qualities arising out of enduring such bigotry or the potential of it. But, as I said, we are all human and the world can be a very confusing place - even on our best days (again, all of this is hypothetical, I don't know that that is how the image of the character arose for the author, or if there were any real life relations who did have such an aggregate or majority of the characteristics of the character as it appears on the page, and to be honest, I am not really concerned to know - I am more interested in the character as it appears on the page, in the final shape of the text ... sometimes I think source criticism goes way too far and people go to saying more about hypotheticals than can be justified, no matter how good the hypothesis is, it is still only a hypothesis)

(7).

I would close this whole strand with a comment I read somewhere online and I have no clue where, but it was interesting. The commenter was writing on their blog and seemed to be of roughly college age, and related a comment given by one of their professors in English. The professor seemed to be generally on the "pro" side, though not actually of the persuasion under question (but, from the "pro" side, some of the professor's comments on having suspected this before made me think "whatever" - the textual elements the professor listed as making him/her think this even before the "revelation" in public forum made me think "whatever ... you have to read that in with an agenda to get that out of those details ... I have been told I have some of those details sometimes, and if you seriously suggested to anyone who knows me that I am of that persuasion, even those who themselves are and would love to find another ally, they would laugh in your face, at least until they joined you in your endeavor of wishful thinking" ... of course in saying that I realize I am opening myself up to the charge of "see ... maybe you really are but you're just afraid to admit it to yourself" ... and the only other argument for those details as supporting that reading would be to say that the author must have had that in mind when writing those details into that character because those particular details are primarily recognized only as tropes of this persuasion ... but, in fact, there are many instances in literature of these details being used with no suggestion of any connection at all to this persuasion - while they may sometimes be used by some in this way, that does not control the tradition in such a way as to mandate these as tropes and rules of interpretation accepted across the board ... and besides, the author has nowhere, to my knowledge, given these particular traits as what she means when she says "I thought it was all over the place in the books").
Anyway, even such a "pro" sider as this lit professor reportedly (according to the student blogger) said that it was a bunk statement - not bunk in the sense that the prof did not believe it of the character, but that it is bunk for an author to make these types of statements after the closing of a text. The specific language that the prof used was that this type of statement seriously, and mucks up, the roles of author and reader. The prof reportedly actually complained that such a type of statement made it difficult for the reader to do what is natural to the reader, which is interpreting the text as a self-contained unity, because the author has stepped in, after the closing of the text, and tried to do the job of the reader for them.

(I would distinguish this from what I was talking about in the last comment about the author providing certain information, like, "um, what? the dates at the headings of the four sections of my The Sound and the Fury? Those dates correspond to the Thursday of Holy Week to Easter Sunday" [I actually remembered better after my last comment - I had been thinking that it did not include Easter, and thus pushed back to include Tuesday because it was really stuck in my head that the earliest day of the week included began with a "T" - but I remembered, the book does include Easter ... it is the only section corresponding to a character not actually a part of the Compton family by blood, Dispy the African-American servant, the implication I argued for in my paper being that one has to step outside the mentality of the white ante-bellum South to find Easter, and even then, that white ante-bellum South is not able to so step outside of itself, even as "simple" a character as Benjy cannot, he can go to Easter service with Dispy and her family, but he cannot participate positively, all he can do is wail like an idiot - and this last is not my own derogatory term: Faulkner took the title from MacBeth's "life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.") ... but such information is publicly accessible, as I would argue that all such information must be publicly to some degree or another to be valid for (it took Granger to tell us about the four elements and alchemy, but it was publicly accessible in some way or another and I think Rowling's statement was really just confirmation of something Granger had already legitimately discovered in the text), and by making such a statement an author would simply be helping the un-informed reader to information that is already actually in the text, information a more informed reader might already have access to (example: in a class on 20th Century Novel we read Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man - great book - and I was taking the class with a friend who was, like me, a little older than everyone else in the class, and we would have our own conversations later about all the things and connections the poor professor could not, try as she might, get the traditional aged undergrads to make and connect, and my friend was a little more informed in certain areas, so when in the book the narrator/main character meets a bum in NYC walking the other direction with a shopping cart full of building blueprints singing " I got the dog, I got the god-dog" my friend informed me that this was underscoring that Ellison was trying to make points of specific strands of existentialist thought, since it is a common trope statement in that school of thinking to observe that "God" is "dog" spelled backwards, and that a common thing in existentialism is noting all of the "systems" for trying to describe reality that wind up being just procrustean beds that either decapitate the occupant or cripple them by cutting off their feet or pull them apart at the seems by stretching them to fit the bed - hence it is a bum that is walking along with all these symbolic "blueprints" in a shopping cart). I think the statements under question are of an entirely different nature.

Conclusion

I would not accuse Rowling of ill intentions, and in truth it would not necessarily be fair of me to criticize unequivocally on a situation in which I have not found myself or had to navigate (her level of celebrety - and it would REALLY be unfair of me to criticize her for getting to that level of public celebrity when it arose naturally from the situation of her writing the books which I have enjoyed so much reading and am so fond of writing on how much they have to offer). I am guessing Rowling and I would disagree somewhat on the matter of the issue as a whole (of such persuasions and actively participating in the "lifestyle"), and it seems to me fairly obvious to me that we would disagree on the making of the statements she made. But there you have it, the messy thing called human life.

All of that is just to try to give a balanced approach to this matter. I'm sure I have "done a bunk" of it, but there you have it, I think that is everything I wanted to say on the matter.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (January 04, 2008 2:28 PM) : 

Your arguments are interesting, but you are still basically taking the same stance as Granger - let it alone and believe what you want. God is demanding more and more that His children reach a higher calling - not to degrade or hate - but to call Sin what it is - Sin. JKR is a post-modern writer who has, at best, a vague belief formed in the not-quite-vacuum of Christian-like dogma. She is no C.S. Lewis. Frankly, I'm glad. I liked her books, but I don't like what she did to DD, or worse, messing with her completed work. I think I'll stick to classical authors from now on - much easier to recommend to others. Poor Harry - I don't think he'd like someone talking his beloved DD after he was dead and buried, without the guy being around to either legitimize or refute the statement. Boo to Rowling!

 

post a comment




Blog Directory & Search engine

Syndicate Muggle Matters (XML feed)
iPing-it!