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Horcruxes and the Invisibility Cloak as an Image o...
Backfiring on Voldy in Chamber of Secrets
Of Heros and Altars in Chamber of Secrets
Owl Post
Beyond the Veil
Riding Death: Thestrals and Mysteries Theological
Addendum to "Literary Approaches"
The Bronx Brain Bomber
Good point regarding "lap dog Snape" from a reader
It's All Right, Ma, I'm Only Bleeding


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Hogwarts, Hogwarts,
Hoggy Warty Hogwarts,
Teach us something please,
Whether we be old and bald,
Or young with scabby knees,
Our heads could do with filling,
With some interesting stuff,
For now they're bare
And full of air,
Dead flies and bits of fluff.
So teach us stuff worth knowing,
Bring back what we forgot,
Just do your best
We'll do the rest,
And learn until our brains all rot!



1: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2: Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3: There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4: Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5: Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6: His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8: The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9: The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10: More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11: Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12: Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13: Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14: Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Friday, April 14, 2006

The Final Pedagogue

Well, I am about in chapter 11 of listening to Half Blood Prince right now, but just before this book I listened to Prisoner of Azkaban. There are several things I have to go back and look at in the paper version to write about that I noticed when listening to that part, but for this post there is one biggy.

I am more convinced than ever, after listening to the end of POA, that Harry will be the 7th and final DADA teacher. I should explain what I mean by being "convinced" and why I do not think that, whatever happens in book 7, I will be proved wrong. Whatever Rowling already has written in the final chapter sitting in her safe at home and whatever elements will be revealed in book 7 are still a mystery. As I have said before, from my experience of the works thus far I trust her that whatever direction she takes things will be good and that if she does not have Harry be the 7th DADA teacher, there will be revelations and introductions of elements that make it make complete sense along a new (or formerly hidden) line of logic that is completely consistent with the story as we have had it so far ... and a completely exciting read. BUT as for the story logic as it has unfurled thus far: the undeniable conclusion seems to me to be that Harry will be the 7th and final DADA teacher.

Ex Cathedra

Here is the bit I discovered in this my second complete experience of POA. When Harry speaks with Lupin in his office at the end, as Lupin is leaving, having resigned, Dumbledore comes in. Dumbledore and Harry speak more after Lupin leaves (which is the stuff I have yet to go back and refresh on from the paper version and write on), but before they do, Harry sits down in Lupin's "now vacant" chair, ie the chair behind the desk which was his as DADA teacher. For me as a Catholic there is the obvious connection between a chair and teaching authority in the fact that the Pope has authority to teach "Ex Cathedra," or "from the chair of Peter." But even for broader contemporary Christendom that is not as particularly aware of that particular "throne of teaching" image/office I think that the connection between a chair/seat and teaching permeates our collective subconscious (to borrow language from some post-modern literary critic/philosopher - Foucault, I think, but I can't remember for sure). Within Christianity in particular we have Christ's instruction in the Gospel that the Jews not do as the Pharisees do but that they do, for the time being at least, follow the teaching authority of the Pharisees, for they "sit in the chair of Moses." (Matthew 23:2). But even on a broader scale in our culture you have references to things such as the "seat of wisdom," or for instance people discuss the differences between Hebraic thought and modern thought by noting that for moderns the heart is the source of emotion, whereas for Hebraic thought the "gut" (literally bowels) is the "seat of the emotions."

The Evidence

When this is combined with the other evidence, I think it it is overwhelmingly in favor of 'Arry as the heir to that particular throne (I'm not entirely convinced of the concreteness of Granger's analysis as Harry's name as a cockney-accented "pun" meaning "heir of the potter," ie "Son of God," although what I mean by saying that is that I buy it but think it may be more latent/implicit and less solidified than Granger draws it out ... but for my purposes here the pun on "heir" fits too well not to borrow it shamelessly. :) )

We know, especially after what is revealed in book 6 about Voldy seeking the DADA post and it being cursed ever after he is denied it, that the DADA position is a major arc element in the plot of the series. Granger has noted (in his books) the great discovery made by fans that Snape's potions riddle in book 1, the outset of the series, is a riddle about the 7 DADA teachers. Out of the 6 teachers we have seen thus far, only 1 has been a truly good teacher: Lupin. Quirrel and Barty Jr were both in the employ of Voldy; Lockhart and Umbridge were both not only nitwits, but menacing nitwits; and while I believe Snape to be a "white hat" and also one of the most competent wizards around, his antipathy towards Harry often stands in the way of his teaching effectively and has even placed him in question of materially contributing to great evils (I am thinking of book 4 when Harry and Krum find Barty Crouch Sr in the woods mad in the head and Harry runs up to the castle to get Dumbledore - I don't think at that point anything could have saved BC Sr from his own son, but the delay caused by Snape's antagonism towards Harry in not letting him into Dumbledore's office does not put the potions master's case in good stead.)

Only Lupin has been truly competent at actual defence, competent at teaching it well AND completely charitable - all together at once.

When you combine these considerations with Harry's experience in teaching Dumbledore's Army and the brilliant chiastic theory Pauli put forth about the DADA position with Quirrel having Voldy on the back of his head in book 1 and Harry probably being revealed to have Voldy on the front of his head in book 7 (keeping in mind what I was saying about Harry's resonant recognition of Riddle's name even before he had actually heard who Riddle was, in Chamber of Secrets)... the evidence (at least, as I said, in what has been revealed in the series thus far) seems to me to be over-whelming: Harry is the heir-apparent to Lupin's throne as the truly good DADA teacher and the true culmination not only of his own personal story arc but of the DADA story arc at the same time.

The Meaning

Especially given Rowling's profession before beginning writing the HP series, it is obvious that pedagogy is, for her, an almost sacred role in the human family. It is not simply the giving of dead facts but the living formation of human lives at a most impressionable age. We see this still obscurely evident in the title "professor." In the ancient world "professionals" were those whose role in society was so fundamental on a deeper level that they took or professed an oath of office, they called on the name of the god/s imploring divine help to fulfill their heavy responsibility.

I have already discussed someplace how there is a juxtaposition between the Ministry of Magic and Hogwarts. In book one, at the outset of the series, Hargid relates that many wanted Dumbledore to be minister of magic, but he chose the path of pedagogy instead. The crowning arc of both the development of the DADA postition sub-plot and the plot of Harry's development as a person/wizard is that he become not an auror, but a teacher. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it until I get proven wrong. :)
posted by Merlin at 12:05 AM


Comments on "The Final Pedagogue"

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (April 17, 2006 4:51 AM) : 

Having read only Polish translation of HP1 I can’t say how Snape’s riddle relates to seven DADA teachers – probably the riddle in translation is something different from original text! Still, „Harry as 7th DADA teacher” hypothesis seems a bit odd to me. Teaching requires staying at Hogwarts. When, then, Harry will have time to discover and destroy remaining Horcruxes? I don’t believe that HP7 will be „Raiders of The Lost Horcruxes” kind of book, it will be more about discovering what’s really happened in the past, healing and reconciliation, at least that’s what the alchemic pattern of the series points to, but nevertheless, Harry will have to move around a lot. So, maybe, there won’t be any DADA teacher as the subject will be dropped from Hogwarts curriculum, but Harry will teach that „illegally” during his visits to Hogwarts? Also, do you have any ideas who might be the next Headmaster? Does Minerva have any chance? Or will it be someone appointed by the Ministry?

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 17, 2006 8:49 AM) : 

mmm i'm thinking he meant more harry being the DADA teacher in the future, as in the epilogue. (is that right, merlin?)
that was a personal favourite theory of mine for a while, but i have the sinking feeling that jkr debunked it in an interview sometime.....

andrzej i totally agree that book 7 will be along the lines of rediscovering and revisiting clues from books 1-6. (blogged a great post from hpfgu on that topic a little while back)

cheers all,
jo

 

Blogger Pauli said ... (April 17, 2006 8:59 AM) : 

The Indiana Jones is a good metaphor since he is also a college professor as his "day job". Remember, Dumbledore was officially at Hogwart's but was out doing a lot of "field work" as you might say.

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (April 17, 2006 11:50 AM) : 

Just to clear up on the DADA riddle in PS/SS.

Of the potions:
2 were nettle wines
2 were friends (passage through the flames behind and the flames before)
and
3 were poisons.

There are different theories, but here is mine:

Lockheart and Umbridge are the wines (some see her as poison ... but I say, the proof is in the pudding ... she and Lockheart share two things in common: neither of them ever taught the students a single thing in class, and both wound up going bonkers at the end of the book). Lupin is Friend, Quirrel and Barty Jr were foes (poisons) ... that leaves a posion and a friend ... or I would say, an antidote to a poison (cf Golpalott's 3rd law, which can be summed up in the statement "the whole more than the sum of its parts", in "Birthday Surprises" in HBP) I think Snape is a blended poison - and Harry is the antidote (I also think there is a tension that belies this in the interplay between Snape's/HBP's practical shortcut of the bezaor and Hermione's attempt at finding the supra-ingredient ... I think Harry will need Hermione's help in book 7 to dicover the supra-ingredient of Snape as a poison and be able to accomplish both his own and Snape's redemption ... I think the malady that makes Snape a poision is one of those ones that will not be overcome by a bezaor)


As for "Raiders of the Lost Horcruxes" - they must be destroyed if Voldy is to be vanquished, and it is pretty anti-climactic as a good vs evil story if Evil is not undone in the end. We still do not know how many (out of 7) Voldy actually managed to create or how many have been undone
... but if they're out there, they have to be destroyed.

As for Rowling herself denying that Harry will be the final DADA teacher ... she doesn't convince me. I would point to this on her website section "rumors" - "The Luna/Neville shippersare much less vehement and scary than the Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione tribes, so I hope I won't receive too much hate mail for quashing this rumour." ... That would seem to put a pretty dim light on the Ron-Hermione Combo right? But they do wind up together at the end of HBP, as do Harry and Ginny (at least Harry and Ginny have been together, and the "break-up" is due to protection from the situation, not no longer being meant for each other) ... and anyone who can read HBP and not notice the amount of space devoted to the Ron-Hermione relationship ... is blind.


My point is, Rowling Ruses. Not just to keep secrets from getting out of the bag, although that can be part of it - but to keep emphasis straight. There is a difference between a lucky guess on a random clue of "who winds up with who" in a soap opera mindset - and understanding the alchemical imagery for the deeply true human reasons that Ron and Hermione belong together. (Remember, for the medieval lit behind the potterverse, courtly love is a symbol of Divine Grace). So it fits for Rowling to be a bit negative on the "Harry winds up with so and so!! ... no, wait ... he winds up with this otrher person!!! no, wait ... Neville winds up with Cho and Harry with Luna!" thing.

Same thing with the DADA post at Hogwarts (seeing the real reasons not only "within the text" but within the logic that underlies this story, why Harry is destined for the job - vs the thing of "Harry will be the final DADA teahcer! ... no wait, he'll be the new headmaster ... because, um ... um ... Minerva will not be able to do it anymore becuase, um, she'll marry Scrimmy and now help him rule the ministry with wisdom!"). I think Harry is destined for the DADA job. I mean, can you imagine Harry even being able to stoumach the politics necessary to be an auror and work in the ministry after his run-ins with Scrimmy in HBP(that is WHY it was such a deciding factor in his auror ambition whether he was able to continue potions ... potions is a lot like politics).

As for book 7 itself - we don't even know if Hogwarts will be open at all during that year. But the scope of the book is larger than that year, the final chapter includes what every body goes on to do ... and make no mistake, DADA will always be necessarry ... it was necessary before the rise of Voldy, when "Merry Thought" was simply enough to defend against the despair of the dementors, and it will be necessary after Voldy is dead (now that the situation has advanced to where was know that "Merry Thought" was not enough to prevent the rise of a dark lord)... Red Hen is right on that one (I'm not sure of all RH's details on it but the intuition is right) ... the real problem is the dementors, the problem of evil in the world and darkness and despair as temptations ... there will always be a need to know how to defend against the maneuverings of those who would seek to capitalize on these things for personal gain, ie the dark arts (you get this same kind of thing in Lord of the Rings with Sharkey and the scouring of the shire ... the "main evil" has been overcome but as long as this orb turns in space and time ... gotta keep an eye out)

Like I said in the post, I could be wrong ... about book 7 when it comes out (in the future from this point in time). I don't think, however, that I will be wrong in an "I told you so" sort of way ... I don't think Rowling is the type to scrap certain plans that she had before-hand just to spite analysts and defy their ability to read the inner logic of her story ... especially if the things she had planned made a lot of sense (she didn't sack the Ron-Hermione relationship, despite her comments before HBP came out)

I think if I am wrong on this one that what does happen will be pretty rich (who knows, it could be that Harry actually does snuff it in taking Voldy down ... which would definitely preclude his being DADA teacher since I definitely don't think he'll be back as a ghost like Bins)

Anyway, that's my take on it

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (April 18, 2006 6:47 PM) : 

Oh yeah, almost forgot ... as a ditto to Pauli's observation on Dr Jones and Dr Dumbledore - Raiders Rules. Interesting that the 2nd movie (Temple of Doom) was the first to garner the new PG13 rating, which was indeed created just for that movie ... and the movie sucks in comparison to 1 and 3. Why? ... the Ark and The Grail. In Christian Tradition they are thematically and Theologically connected ... and they are the most exciting images in all of literary tradition ... truly what Chesterton was refering to in his term "the romance of orthodoxy."

(But notice ... what is sandwiched between the Old and New Testaments when you view the trilogy as a whole ... unbridled paganism - not just inner truths lit upon by pagans, like you have in Homer's Illiad and Odyssey, which are fulfiled in Christian Literature ... but actual pagan cultic ritual)

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 18, 2006 10:14 PM) : 

ooh, merlin. i do hope you are right. i love the idea of harry growing old as the DADA proff.

i read an interesting fan fic the other day which (apart from being a touch racy and sentimental in parts - the curse of the fan fic lol) had some great ideas about how clues from the past could be resolved.
i think one was going back to slughorn to get the acromantula venom he got (when harry was 'under the influence' of the felix felicis) to destroy the locket which they got from aberforth (who aquired it from mundungus).

my only problem with the really 'raiders of the lost ark' stuff is that harry is pretty clueless, while indiana jones is an accomplished action guy.


oh and i love the 'merry thought' point.

jo

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (April 19, 2006 12:43 PM) : 

Jo,
good observation on Harry's lack of development in the prowess department ... he is in NO WAY a match for Snape, Snape is a seriously crack wizard ... a potions master, an accomplished legilemens, a sharp shot.

BUT Harry has one thing Snape never had ... friends. Harry was a wee bit thick to be telling Ron and Hermione they could not come with him at the end of HBP, He's going to need them BIG TIME to be a match for Snape when they meet up and before they are reconciled, and even more in meeting Voldy. I think it underscores the importance of the intellectual soul and biological souls to the Golden soul, the GS is by definition the meeting ground of the other two in the human person ... and I think that is what was behind Dumbledore telling Harry at the beginning of HBP that he should share all these things with Ron and Hermione ... and just on the practical level, Harry is going to need Hermione's intelligence and Ron's guts (harkening back to the chess game in PS/SS).
I think that friendship is the thing that will be the key.

and, yeah, I liked the MerryThought thing too ... I hadn't remembered it till listening to HBP again. I won't be surprised if we find out in book 7 that Riddle was not simply asking after a rumour he had heard about MerryThought retiring but was actually actively working towards her leaving so the post would be open when he graduated.

What the whole Merrythought thing reminds me of is the Shire in Lord of the Rings (the shire being, of course, a very merry place indeed) ... it can't survive on its own and in isolation, it must be connected to the larger battle of good against evil - that is why Merry and Pippin come back to the Shire no longer simply as they were, they come still in active service of their respective kings, as emmissaries, to keep the Shire connected to hte larger battle that has been fought against evil.

And on Fan Fic ... I only have one piece but I really have to clean it up ... it's complete but probably more than complete, a lot of superfluous reambling material taht needs to be pruned out ... but when I do that I may pop it up on my little-used personal blog and link to it here so you can read it, I think you'll like it. It is the pilot of a narrative version (vs screen-play) of a sitcom called Godric's Howling Hollow about Harry and Ginny's life with their 7 children, about Hermione's job in the newly created Ministry office for the fair treatment of magical brethren (basically the real and now true rebuilding of the statue in the Minsistry that was trashed in OotP), Harry's job as not only DADA teacher but also Quidditch coach (new position) for Griffyndor, of Which Neville is head of house as Herbology professor ... and it includes stuff on Trelawney in a newly created ministry position "broadcasting" Quidditch matches, and Dobby is the (still emancipated) house elf for Harry and Ginny's family, residing in Harry's parents house in Godric's Hollow, which was revealed to be an ancestral heritage home (Harry being the heir of GG) ... the pilot alludes to all that but the main action involves an inceident of Ginny having bat-bogeyed Fred and George, who are always trying to conscript Harry's and Ginny's kids as guinea pigs for products they are developing.

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 19, 2006 8:32 PM) : 

yeh, it's gotta all be about the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts with 'the trio' and you think ginny's gonna come into it somewhere.

i would NEVER have picked you as a fan fic writer, merlin! i simply must read your piece!

re the OP of this particular thread, i just read this in HBP (out from the library for a change hehe)

from chapter twenty page 414 Bloomsbury hardback edition
'Lord Voldemort's Request'

'I am surprised you have remained here so long,' said Voldemort after a short pause. 'I always wondered why a wizard such as yourself never wished to leave school.'
'Well,' said Dumbledore, still smiling, 'to a wizard such as myself, there can be nothing more important than passing on ancient skills, helping hone young minds. If I remember correctly,....'

 

Blogger MommyLydia said ... (April 21, 2006 10:43 AM) : 

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-connectiontransc.html

J.K. Rowlings HAS said that Harry won't be a teacher.
"Anyway, it’s very exciting. We just love Harry Potter. We’re curious ---- well first of all we can’t wait for Books 4, 5, 6 and 7. But after that, we’re curious as to whether Harry is going to have a life after Hogwarts, or if maybe, Harry might be a Hogwarts teacher.
JKR: Well, because all your kids said ‘hello’ so nicely in the background there, I am going to give you information I haven’t given anyone else and I will tell you that one of the characters, one of Harry’s classmates, though it’s not Harry himself, does end up a teacher at Hogwarts. But, it is not, maybe the one you think, hint, hint, hint. Yeah, one of them does end up staying at Hogwarts, but ----"

Note: not Harry himself.

Another thing to mention. If you actually solve the riddle of the potions (A logic puzzle), you discover that the nettle wines are at the 2nd and 6th position. Which means that Lockhart and Snape would be the nettle wine, neither helping nor hurting in the knowledge of DADA. http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-rams01.shtml

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (April 24, 2006 4:02 PM) : 

HMMM, Very Interestingg. I may have to concede defeat for the time being on this one ... at least as far as the evidence for the futural is concerned - but, to quote Jack Black's Karl Denim character in King Kong, "remember, defeat is only momentary" LOL

Being as this interview comes from 1999, between the releases of POA and GOF, it seems that POA and the chair incedent I was speaking of would be fresh in her mind, and an outcome element as large as this is not one that you are likely to change once you have a deciscion like she seems to have had on it.

But I still maintain that my reading is the most consistent from within the text as we have it thus far. This extra-textual authorial statement does seem to cast a pretty distinct light on it, but I still say that within the text as we have it thus far Harry becoming the final DADA teacher makes the most sense (that's the fun of plot twists and set-ups ... and the series is all one big plot which is not yet done ... and I have hope that in my clueless meanderings there may be something that plays into some even more exciting irony as far as Harry's fate and the role of the DADA post in the meaning of the story)

(PS: my guess at the "not the one you think" is Neville teaching Herbology, the "one you would have thought" would be Hermione ... just my take on it)

On another front though ... there is material in this interview that pretty much shoots down the "Snape has actually been a really nice guy all along, just playing his part well" reading (I italicize "just" for emphasis that I do think Snape can play a part really well, he is a consumate "angle player" [for the ultimate movie on the disillusionment of Angle Playing, watch the Coehn Brothers' "Miller's Crossing"] but I do think there is something more than mere eacting in his antipathy towards Harry) ... In this interview Rowling pretty much directly refers to Snape as a sadist

This leads me to my second point: While I think there must be something to the nettle wines being second from both ends (positions 2 and 6) I just have a REALLY hard time seeing Snape as a Nettle wine, especially with seeing him as neither contributing to nor detracting from DADA material learned. I mean, you have 2 biggies with Snape ... Occlumency and Non-Verbal Spells. admittedly the former is not within the official scope of his tenure as actual DADA teacher, but there is another one (in addition to NVB spells) that is ... the dementors. I think Red Hen's argument is solid that he dementors are KEY to the dark arts as a whole, that they form the very center of the problem of the Ministry's impotency against Voldy.

I also think it is important to look for the clues in the homework and subjects covered in classes (which is one of the reasons I think the Goblins will play a role in book 7 - in addition to Bagman's problems with them and the goblin in the key book 5 image of the false statue ... it seems like that is damned near all Binns talks about in class or assigns homework on ... for like 5 or 6 years)
You have one key piece of Homework from Snape as DADA teacher in HBP and Rowling makes a point to note that Harry is pretty sure he's going down on the essay because he disagrees with Snape on how to handle dementors.

In the scope of the series as a whole in its broader implications, I would have to say that this is THE central question of Defending against the Darkness ... what to do about dementors (use them to gaurd your prison? ... REALLY bad idea). If Snape is advocating a wrong path on this one he is definitely DETRACTING from sound thought and teaching on DADA, if he is on the right path he is providing Harry something he will NEED to realize in a big way by the end of the series.

The Nettle wine positions is pretty heavy evidence from within the text itself(which I have pondered, probly spent more time doing so than I should have LOL) but I still have a really hard time reconciling it with Snape as presented in the texts, or maybe need to work out a more refined scope to the meaning or something like that... who knows :)

"He puzzled and puzzled, till his pzzler was sore" ... LOL

(Snape, The Grinch, Merlin ... are they all really the same person? LOL)

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 24, 2006 6:14 PM) : 

agree about neville over hermione.

with snape and the nettle wine, i guess within the way he taught the other students it doesn't get much mention how it impacts the school, so maybe that is where the innocuous angle comes from?

love the thought about the goblins being more significant than we realized, and all the history of them. they do hold the wealth of the wizarding world in their hands after all, and bill and fleur work for gringotts. there's also the fact of all those vaults full of who knows what.

nice to hear from you, merlin.

jo

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (April 24, 2006 7:29 PM) : 

Jo,
it is nice to be heard from. Besides, I had to do something to keep myself from going nutters editing all day for acadmics who don't know how to write or stay on topic LOL (now if that is not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is)

HMMMMMM ... the potions riddle is indeed a most mysterious riddle (and the sign of a truly great work, that she can introduce such a paradigm at the outset that has us all still puzzling our puzzlers as we await the final installment)

Some of it seems to turn on the scope of action for the teaching post, and some on the evidence. One possibility is that the scope of action (as concerns the riddle) is what they manage to do in the classroom ... As you say, we do not have much in the way of content of what Snape taught ... but then we do not have this for Quirrel either, which is not that unusual because that is first year and you would expect simply to be doing the basics, but we must assume he did a decent job of that without teaching subversive material(we must not forget ... Voldy did get his wish in a way ... he would have had had much influence in the way Quirrel taught DADA, being right there on the back of his head the whole time ... but then in HBP it seems more clear that teaching anything, including things that give bad influence, was just an excuse and that he really wanted influence more outside the classroom and a chance to comb the castle for artifacts to make into Horcruxes)
But it is possible we will find out in book 7 some hitherto untold ways in which Quirrel taught actual dark magic while he was there in book 1.

But then we move on to a more "known poison" - Barty Jr. Here is one of the reason's i think GOF is such a central book, because he is such a central image (as well as a plot character, but I find him most interesting as an image ... this is also one of the reasons I still leave the door open for Regulus Black being RAB, despite Sirius' disparaging remarks ... Barty Jr was a "sickly" under-dog and look what he did ... beat Barty Sr's Imperious curse) ... In short, the essay I was meaning to write for a long while and have not gotten around to is that Barty Jr is ... Ciaphus. ciaphus was the High Priest who spoke true prophecy in the very midst of plotting murder against Christ.

We consider Barty Jr to be a poison because he was working for Voldy and got him THE key ingredient for his bodily return. BUT this was not his classroom performance - in his classroom performance (albeit maybe only to keep up a really good disguise as Moody ... butI think there is more to him than that, more even than Barty Jr himself would admit, even to himself) - he spoke true prophecy; he taught them valuable things. He taught Harry how to hone his ability to resist the Imperius and then praised him for it to the class and helped them develop their skills ... in the classroom itself he was not poisonous, he was actually helpful (when I re-listened to GOF, the figure of Barty Jr broke my heart)

I guess one of the problems I have is with Umbridge as a poison. She did not do a whole lot in the way of teaching, good or ill (I mean, she was an abominable failure as a teacher in general, but for this very reason she could not make anything negative stick in the students minds and they went elsewhere to get teaching, the DA) and as a "player" she was not really much beyond being Fudge's Stooge ... in the end she blends back into the scenery without helping Voldy like Barty Jr did etc.

And I also really like Umbridge as a wine because of the "going nutty" thing.

I also like the idea of Snape as blended poison and Harry as antidote with a supra-ingredient ... but then this bears on the question of the "good Snape" theory and whether he actually actively killed Dumbledore

... a little earlier I was talking to a girl who is a sophmore at the school my firend teaches at, outside of whose office I sit and work on editing this crazy encyclopedia thing. She is a student assistant for several of the profs in this dept and I overheard her talking to another student assistant, telling her she had read all of HBP over the weekend because she is taking Fantasy lit this semester and they are reading POA and she figured she better get HBP read because people would probably be plot-spoiling from HBP in class discussions. Anyway, she pointed out that Snape does not do any damage whatsoever to Harry in their final face off. Of course, he is under orders from Voldy to leave Harry for the Dark Lord himself, but I hadn't really thought before she said it that he might have been able to sneak a little Cruciatus if he wanted, just for kicks ... still not sure, but an interesting observation.

If Harry is not the final DADA teacher, it seems to me like the chances go up considerably that he dies in book 7. The only other thing I can guess at as a possibility I will call "the Degoba Option," (the Yoda path)Seclusion as a hermit mystic unofficially training people in DADA. I guess it doesn't necessarily have to be in seclusion or necessarily preclude marrying Ginny (I desparately want her to be happy living out her life raising thoroughly interesting children, I think it would have to be 7 of them, with Harry ... or maybe they have 5 and form their own Quidditch team :) ) - but I just have a hard time imagining him being able to stoumach the politics of working under the Minsiter (Scrimgeour or anyone else) or settling for any other "walk of life."


In the end I go back to what I said at the beginning of this comment: this riddle is a very rich one indeed, and the mark of a great masterpiece. ( I have even tried before to connect the directional orientation of the friends potions ... the final friend helping to move forward beyond the Voldy years [or maybe helping to move beyond Voldy himself, ie to overcome him] and maybe Lupin being a past oriented friend [helping Harry know his past, his parents, his godfather etc] ... but I could never work it out very clearly)

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 24, 2006 9:27 PM) : 

i REALLY don't want harry to die. if it's the christ image, the whole point of it surely is the ressurection, not the death. many have died, valiantly, sacrificially, but he's the only one who went on to live, thereby giving us freedom from death, so i'm hoping the living is the thing!

the idea of harry in the ministry of magic strikes me as ridiculous! surely not. (could be eating my words of course!) just as the image of him as auror doesn't ring true to me. he would be sick of darkness and stuff....

i've read arguments about how lovely snape was to harry ad nauseum and the idea makes me yawn, but i do agree that he deliberately avoids giving harry pain in the last confrontation. even beyond just 'saving him for the dark lord'. the only time he does hurt him is in his emotional outburst to being called a coward.

re umbridge. she did actively cause pain to students (the evil detentions etc) and tried to control the life of the school. there was active malice there.

ooops, i've been sprung at the computer. i'm meant to be getting kids dressed.....
enjoy the editing anyway.....

jo

 

Blogger MommyLydia said ... (April 25, 2006 1:36 AM) : 

Note, we only know from Snape himself that Voldemort said such thing. IF snape is, somehow, only following orders here, he may have come up with convenient sounding excuse to get the others off of killing Harry.

After all, I'm SURE Voldemort would not have minded (if he really meant this) if they kidnapped Harry and brought him to them -- and with the number of Death Eaters I don't think this would have been impossible. YEt he isn't.

Something about the potion riddle: Even if it is about DADA teachers, the ORDER might not have anything to do with it.

I'm not really seeing HArry as DADA teacher (except it is because of the Dumbledore Army thing... but then they didn't follow that in 6th book). I am almost thinking there may be no DADA teacher in 7th year. I would not be surprised in the last book if she realy does veer off the established path and what happens at Hogwarts doesn't matter at all. (CAsual contact with Harry when he ends up back there, but no school year for him, etc) I'm just having trouble seeing how she writes to answer all the outstanding issues and finds time to make him a teacher as well.

I, too, despite his claimed want to be an auror, have a hard time seeing him as that.


I guess (for the interview) it is possible that Harry, if he is a DADA teacher, will be a one year teacher too So he WON'T be a teacher AFTER he leaves Hogwarts.... and thus how she gets around her answer. It's too definite for me to think lying.

A thought. The chair analogy you mention was in book 3. By Chiastic structure 5 would be the one that balances that -- and in book 5 Harry DID take a teaching role. Perhaps his role as head of the DA was the culmination of what you see there?

 

Blogger jkr2 said ... (April 25, 2006 4:10 AM) : 

no, but mbr - the idea is of harry as DADA teacher in the future i think. the epilogue. after it's all over. the happily ever after and all that....

 

Blogger Merlin said ... (May 02, 2006 5:04 PM) : 

Ahhh, one last - and this from the location in which I am currently banging my head off of the project of paring an encyclopedia down to publishable size ... I sit in an academic department at a collge, and the heads of such departments are usually refered to as the ... "chair of the department" - i stilll believe that if Rowling made a statement like she did in that interview, at the timing at which it came out, that she does not intend to Have Harry sit in the DADA chair - I'm just adding a little bit of wieght to my case that my reading made the most sense based in what we have been given thus far (which, as I said, may be part of a nice set-up for the revelation of something very clever in Harry's destiny and that of the DADA post at Hogwarts - a setup using ironic tension etc, to be revealed in book 7) - weight fomr the common usage of teh chairs of teachers in our culture

 

Blogger Pauli said ... (May 02, 2006 5:40 PM) : 

Maybe the last book will be entitled "Harry Potter and the Chair of Merlin"!

 

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